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Black-throated diver? (Suffolk,UK) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mike_H
- Start date
rokermartin
Well-known member
It's a Guillemot
rokermartin
Well-known member
It's in winter plumage
Allen S. Moore
Well-known member
Clearly a guillemot.
phil baber
Clipped Wing
Transatlantic names.
Confirm both. A sad end.
Confirm both. A sad end.
John B (not the sloop)
Don't blame me I didn't vote for 'em
Only if it's a Black Guilliemot. Bog standard Guillimots have a mid brown head (duriing the breeding season anyway)
Mr Patience
Well-known member
Shows the differences across the pond. I've never heard the term in my life!
RoyW
Well-known member
Yes, Guillemot and Common Murre are both correct - but since the OP is in England (and used 'diver' not 'loon' in the original ID), it's probably best to stick with Guillemot!
Actually a Guillemot is an entirely different bird. All black with white wing patches. We have both Pigeon Guillemots and Common Murres breeding here. The dead bird is a Common Murre, not either a Pigeon or Black Guillemot.
So to avoid further confusion, it is Uria aalge, the Common Murre. It is not Cepphus grylle, the Black Guillemot or Cepphus columba, the Pigeon Guillemot. It is also not Cepphus carbo, the Spectacled Guillemot.
So to avoid further confusion, it is Uria aalge, the Common Murre. It is not Cepphus grylle, the Black Guillemot or Cepphus columba, the Pigeon Guillemot. It is also not Cepphus carbo, the Spectacled Guillemot.
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It's not my name. The IOC World list, the Clements World list and the AOU list all call Uria aalge the Common Murre. None of these authorities call it a Guillemot.
To use Guillemot as a name for Common Murre invites international confusion because Guillemot refers to other species while Murre is unambiguous and internationally accepted.
To use Guillemot as a name for Common Murre invites international confusion because Guillemot refers to other species while Murre is unambiguous and internationally accepted.
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Larry Sweetland
Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
And I will call a Guillemot a Common Murre when, and only when, we are finally required to pay for our teapots in dollars
RoyW
Well-known member
No one is disputing the American name, which also appears as a name for Uria aalge in other 'international' lists (sometimes alonside Guillemot, with either one given preference). The Clements list is perhaps a bad example if you want to suggest that it is the accepted international name, because Clements is now published by Cornell University (in America), and I believe follows the AOU on taxonomical decisions as well (not all of which are internationally accepted).
The species is known as Guillemot in Britain, and appears under this name in all English language field guides that I am aware of, that have not been published in the Americas. It might sometimes cause some confusion, but so do many other names (Buzzards are a good example).
In scientific publications the scientific name should always be used to prevent confusion; on forums like this one, the common name used in the OP's region is usually better.
Edit: I think that the postings on here clearly show that even though Uria aalge may appear in international lists as Common Murre, the name is clearly not "internationally accepted".
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birdboybowley
Well-known member.....apparently so ;)
Well put Roy!
Call it a "Bonxie" if you want, but that doesn't change what it is. The purpose of language is to communicate clearly. I suggest that this forum is not centered in the British Isles but is truly international in scope. Anglo-centric usage does not carry international acceptance any more than calling it Guillemot marmette, Arao Común, or ウミガラス.
RoyW
Well-known member
More importantly, which one out of 'Guillemot' and 'Common Murre' would the person who asked the question find in his field guide if he looks up the suggested name?
The fact that both names are correct 'common' names for the species in question has already been stated - and clearly explained (IMO) to allow anyone who reads this thread to realise that. This is an international forum, but that does not mean that allegedly 'accepted' international names will be understood by all those who read the threads.
Just accept that Guillemot is a correct name for this species (as are Common Murre, and Uria aalge) and leave it at that - it's really not worth arguing about.
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