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Flashguns: using off-camera, getting around 'auto-power down'? (1 Viewer)

A

Adrian D

Well-known member
I am looking to invest in a couple of good flashguns to use with either my 20D or 5D, for use off-camera for night photography of owls, badgers, foxes, etc.

I have looked at both the Canon 580EX and the Sigma EF530DG Super (Canon tell me that the 430EX isn't compatible with the 20D), but the problem is that they both 'auto-power down' and this cannot be over-ridden. As you often have to wait some considerable time for the bird or animal to appear at the position you have set-up on, the flashguns will then have shut down and will have to be re-started before use, which is not practical.

Can anyone tell me if after auto-shut down, either of these guns continue to store a full charge to enable them to still fire normally when required, and then re-start automatically once fired. If not, can anyone suggest a suitable, powerful gun for use with DSLR's in this situation, or some other way around this problem.

I know in 'normal slave mode' the Sigma guns will be triggered by the built-in flash on the 20D when they are set to manual, and that the Canon guns can be fired by a ST-E2 wireless transmitter on the camera hot-shoe, so firing either when off-camera is perfectly feasible. It is just this 'auto-power off' that has me stumped.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice given,

Adrian
 
I have 550EX guns and the ST-E2. I note that there's a custom function on the gun, CF-5, which offers two options:

CF-5 Slave Unit SE mode cancellation
0 - Enable SE mode cancellation by master unit for 1 hour.
1 - Enable SE mode cancellation by master unit for 8 hours.

CF-4 Slave unit SE mode activation
0 - Activate after 60 min of non-operation
1 - Activate after 10 min of non-operation

What this means in practice in your situation, I've no idea. What is obvious is that the 550EX flashes bright red* every second or so until it goes into SE mode. It can then be awakened by a test flash from the ST-E2 - it then has to recharge before it can emit a flash itself.

* Some metallic/black tape over the source should stop this annoying the critters.
 
Hi Malcolm,

Thanks for your reply. I have found a list of the C.Fn's for the 580EX on the Canon website.
It would appear that on the 580EX, C.Fn-14 is to turn on or off the 'Auto Power Off activation', which is not available on the 550EX.
C.Fn-04 is to alter the slave units power off time to after either 10mins or 60mins, and C.Fn-05 is for cancellation of slave units auto power off. (both as for the 550EX)

So unless I am totally misunderstanding these functions, it would appear that you can override the 'Auto Power Off' function despite what Canon told me.

It is an expensive way to go though. I was hoping to use the Sigma guns as each of those units are less than half the cost of a 580EX, but I am still trying to find out if there is such a custom function on the Sigma EF530DG Super.

If anyone has the Sigma unit perhaps they will let me know.

Thanks again for you input,
Regards
Adrian
 
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Flash Power down

Hi Adrian,
I have a Sigma 500 Super DG flash and it powers down after a few minutes. If you press the shutter button halfway down, then it powers up again quite quickly. (1 or 2 seconds). I find that this usually gives me enough time to get the shot. You can, of course, press the shutter button halfway down every few minutes to keep it charged up all the time, but I find that I often have long periods of inactivity, so I just leave it powered down until I feel something is about to happen.
My camera (Canon 300D) also powers down by default, but I have turned this off as it took longer to power up than the flash.
My only problem now is recycling rates on the flash. I just wish it could keep pace with the camera.
Good luck

Denny ;)
 
I frequently use the 430EX with the 20D on the high speed sync setting. One of it's features is to be used as a slave unit for the 580EX so I wouldn't be too surprised if it has the same function buttons - it's not something I've explored though.
 
Hi Denny, thanks for the info. Not sure if that would work with both units off-camera being triggered by the camera flash, but it may work if using a wireless transmitter. I will have to look into that.

Alan, the info came directly from Canon but I have found that if you can ever get in touch with them via their website (which is incredibly difficult to find any contact details), the info is occasionally either wrong or misleading for some reason. Thanks for putting me right though.

Ian, apparently the 430EX has 6 custom functions compared to 10 on the 580EX MkII, but as yet I have not been able to find out what those 6 are, so I don't know if overriding the auto-power off is one of them. The 550EX also has 6 C-Fn's and if they are the same ones then the 430EX probably doesn't have the override function either.

If the wireless transmitter will power-up the 430EX's by half-pressing the shutter button without actually firing the flash (similar to what Denny suggested works for his set-up), then the problem may be resolved.
If not, it looks like it may have to be 2x 580EX MkII's and a wireless transmitter to achieve what I am looking to do.
 
Adrian D said:
Hi Denny, thanks for the info. Not sure if that would work with both units off-camera being triggered by the camera flash, but it may work if using a wireless transmitter. I will have to look into that.

Alan, the info came directly from Canon but I have found that if you can ever get in touch with them via their website (which is incredibly difficult to find any contact details), the info is occasionally either wrong or misleading for some reason. Thanks for putting me right though.

Ian, apparently the 430EX has 6 custom functions compared to 10 on the 580EX MkII, but as yet I have not been able to find out what those 6 are, so I don't know if overriding the auto-power off is one of them. The 550EX also has 6 C-Fn's and if they are the same ones then the 430EX probably doesn't have the override function either.

If the wireless transmitter will power-up the 430EX's by half-pressing the shutter button without actually firing the flash (similar to what Denny suggested works for his set-up), then the problem may be resolved.
If not, it looks like it may have to be 2x 580EX MkII's and a wireless transmitter to achieve what I am looking to do.
Click to expand...

Just dug out my instruction manual for the 430EX. C.Fn-01 is Auto Power Off activation - can be set to either on or off :t:

C.Fn-02 is slave unit auto power off - can be set at 10min or 60mins.
 
Hi Ian, thanks for looking that out for me, seems like that answers the question quite clearly. I very much appreciate your time and effort.
Thank you.
 
Adrian, I have used 550's and now use 430's for wireless flash.

I can tell you that with a 430 the longest it will stay on before power down is 60 mins. I use the STE-2 and pressing the test button on the STE-2 will bring it back to life for another 60 mins without any flash.

With the 550's I used it was 8 hours before power down.

Also, as Alan has said, the 20d not being compatible with a 430 is a load of b!!!!!s.

You also say 'the Sigma guns will be triggered by the built-in flash on the 20d' well I think you will find it simply won't work as the onboard flash fires a preflash so setting off the slaves too early.

430's have more than enough power for the type of photography you are intending to do and surely they are as cheap as the Sigma. And, are totally compatible with all features of the Canon wireless system.

The 430 also recycle's faster than the 550 and I believe the 580.
 
Agree with Mick on 430 being adequate - I use one with a beamer and I'm more than happy with the results.

Also agree about faster recycle time on 430 over 550/580. My BiL has a 580, and my 430 beats his 580 hands down, except when he has the external battery pack on the flash. That is wickedly fast.
 
Thank you everyone for your input on this, it has been extremely useful in helping me to decide on what set-up to choose.

I think it will be 2x 430EX's with the ST-E2 transmitter, not as costly as buying 2x 580EX's and with the faster recycling time as some of you have mentioned.

Thanks again for all of your help
 
The recycling time difference is only when firing at full power and the 580 has higher power and therefore more 'reach'...at the same power output I see no real difference in recycle times between the 580 and 430EX (I have both and regularly use both).

If you are using AAs, use high capacity Ni-MH rather than alkalines in your flashes...faster recycle times and less land-fill...
 
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