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bunting maybe? UK (1 Viewer)

Had you thought about a Reed Bunting?

It's a Reed Bunting. Cirls are only in the south west, mostly south Devon.

Jon

Looks good for a Reed Bunting (female).
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Cristian

These were the first 3 ID responses to the thread.

I stongly believe that it's a Reed with unusual Rustic-type features.
 
Following this has been interesting, I'm with John Cantelo, I cannot see Corn Bunting in this bird at all. I would add to point 5 that JC made that the volume of streaking on the flanks and belly is inconsistent with Corn Bunting. My initial reaction was Reed Bunting but I did that once before a few years ago only to be called back to the same hedge an hour later for a second for Britain (Black-faced Bunting). There are some odd features on this bird so definetley worth going back for a second look.
 
I would add to point 5 that JC made that the volume of streaking on the flanks and belly is inconsistent with Corn Bunting.

Not according to some of the links posted up thread! No such links have been provided of Reed Bunting showing the covert pattern evident in ID photos in terms of the length and the strong white tips to medians etc.
 
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Well, now that this thread has reached almost 4 pages, with still no clear agreement on the bird's ID, I'd like to make some general observations:

-Corn & Reed Buntings were never on my list of easily confused species, until now!
-Nice that we can all have an intelligent discussion about a bird's ID without breaking into an argument/insults-a rare thing indeed on BF of late!
-Camera's do 'tell lies' and should not be relied upon exclusively-thus making this thread rather futile at one level (but see below).
-Any thread that challenges what we think we know about common birds and makes us look again is worthwhile, educational and therefore inherently valuable-even if we don't always arrive at an 'answer' that satisfies everyone's desire to put a clear label on every bird.
-Not everyone sees things in the same way, but instead we all see things in the light of our previous experiences. Sometimes we just cannot see what other people are seeing, and better views/more photos are always of benefit.
-Not all birds/individuals of a species are easily identifiable! and should probably be 'let go' in the absence of new 'material/evidence'
-Thinking outside the box sometimes yields unexpected results (see post 62)
Now perhaps we should all let this one lie for now?

Steve
 
Good post Steve - especially the bit about 'camera telling lies' (which works both ways of course!) - not sure it will work but let's see ;)

Perhaps I'll add:

The weight of inconclusive photos will be weighed in favor not of hybrids or rarities but the most likely options which, both in the field and in ID discussions should be ruled out as a primary step.

Experience and what we see can be largely subjective, especially when one attempts to ID using a fieldguide and internet image rather than experience and instinctive reaction.

How one comes to a conclusive ID in the field can take a number of different pathways, all valid, not necessarily all equally reliable.
 
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Yes Mark, an interesting thread - your mood seems to rise and fall as it swings in and out of favor with your original stated case which makes it even more interesting ;).

Actually Deborah, I've been consistent with - I'd want another look, I'm not happy that its a Reed Bunting, I'm not convinced its a Corn either and that we couldn't go any further unless better images were produced see my post 35!

My mood remains the same. my stated case...not happy with this bird remains the same ;)
 
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Actually Deborah, I've been consistent with - I'd want another look, I'm not happy that its a Reed Bunting, I'm not convinced its a Corn either and that we couldn't go any further unless better images were produced.

Then we agree and Steve is right, further discussion is academic and largely pointless.
 
Now that everyone is happy to put this one to bed politely and inconclusively as 'a member of the Emberizadea', at least, final question . . .

Have we ruled out the possibility of hybrid Reed/Corn Bunting yet??

. . . ;)
 
Hybrid it is!

Actually I have a serious idea, now that Cirl Bunting has been mentioned again, and seeing that the OP wondered if it might be a Cirl Bunting or Yellowhammer . . . . (that's been mentioned on threads, the person seeing the bird has a lot more experience of the actual bird . . .)

The more I look (always a bad move lol!), the more I see Cirl Bunting here . . .

Would explain the more 'front heavy look' some are seeing.
Those tail sides, well they could be grey, not convinced they're white myself.
Chestnut shoulder patch
Two toned bill
Strong white wing bar with dark centres above
Would explain the pale spot at the back of the cheek
Would explain the strong russet UTC's
Would fit the habitat and posture of the bird
The photo shows a) Yellow tones b) Chestnut tones c) White tones in all the right places - from this I'd think they were all real and actually present.

We think the whole pic is a bit washed out (the branches are paler than they should be), so what if it is a washed out looking Cirl??

From the Collins (couldn't find any images of 1st w Cirls on the internet myself - looked in the gallery here, there's about 50 adult males and 3 females, 0 immature/1st winter not helpful at all!!!!!!), does fit.

Problems are the face may still be too darkly marked, and the breast too white (in which case it's a hybrid cirl/reed lol). Also do they have a crown stripe?

1st W male Cirl Bunting - washed out photo- would it look something like this? At least as much as a Corn Bunting!! and as much as a Reed Bunting??!!

Distribution; well a Cirl Bunting at this end of the country is as likely (more?) to come from the continent as the south west, and yes they do turn up as migrants.

So there you go!

(No one has to agree with me, and if no-one can see what I mean then so be it. . . But how else are we going to get to 5 pages??!! ;) ) Seriously though . . ??
 
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Would explain the strong russet UTC's (uppertail coverts/rump area)

Oops |:$| . . . (Hmmm, so to turn it into a Yellowhamer then) . . . . doesn't even look much like a Cirl in other respects now. If I knew how to alter the 'white balance' of the photo to get back to what it probably originally looked like we'd know how yellowy it actually was.

Nick's comments re. Bunting variability/basic patterning hold truest I guess.

Maybe the real answer lies in the fact that the original poster (no disrespect intended), has just returned from a golfing holiday on the beautiful Welsh coast and decided to try out their new 'Bunting Image Morphing' software program on here prior to unleashing it on the unsuspecting twitching community . . . . . . Successful trial? ;)
 
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Well, now that this thread has reached almost 4 pages, with still no clear agreement on the bird's ID, I'd like to make some general observations:

-Corn & Reed Buntings were never on my list of easily confused species, until now!
-Nice that we can all have an intelligent discussion about a bird's ID without breaking into an argument/insults-a rare thing indeed on BF of late!
-Camera's do 'tell lies' and should not be relied upon exclusively-thus making this thread rather futile at one level (but see below).
-Any thread that challenges what we think we know about common birds and makes us look again is worthwhile, educational and therefore inherently valuable-even if we don't always arrive at an 'answer' that satisfies everyone's desire to put a clear label on every bird.
-Not everyone sees things in the same way, but instead we all see things in the light of our previous experiences. Sometimes we just cannot see what other people are seeing, and better views/more photos are always of benefit.
-Not all birds/individuals of a species are easily identifiable! and should probably be 'let go' in the absence of new 'material/evidence'
-Thinking outside the box sometimes yields unexpected results (see post 62)
Now perhaps we should all let this one lie for now?

Steve

An excellent post, Steve, and one which all sides of the debate can agree on(and that doesn't happen often!).

The problem is that for this bird (as judged by the photos) to comfortably fit any of the buntings mentioned so far requires us to s-t-r-e-t-c-h our ideas of what these species can look like. I confess that had this photo a different provenance (west country/continent/40 years ago) I would have looked at Cirl a little more closely, but even so I don't see this as a young Cirl Bunting (or Yellowhammer) although I'd consider both before Corn Bunting!
 
As my original post I was happy with Reed except for pale tips to median coverts. The question to ask is how rare is an abherent Reed compared to the other possibilities? A rare plumage variant may be more common/likely than a rare bird.
 
It was up on a hill on the west sussex downs.
thanks;

Any chance of a grid reference/ exact location??

(Sure you didn't think this would get this drawn out lol ;) )

More/better photos could help . . .Agree with John re Steve's comments though . . . Even letting it lie . . eventually!

Flemingo - undoubtably possible. :t:
 
Last time i checked this thread seemed to of concluded halfway down page 1 !

My appologies for any confusion caused by the pics, it was kind of hazy foggy light on that day,seems to suck the contrast from pics, especially at that distance. I'll try and get back for a better look/pics if the bird in question is still around.

It was spotted from the Findon to Lancng ring footpaths, Ive tried to get a rough googlemap location(hope this works) 50.848692, -0.326425

cheers
 
Last time i checked this thread seemed to of concluded halfway down page 1 !

My appologies for any confusion caused by the pics, it was kind of hazy foggy light on that day,seems to suck the contrast from pics, especially at that distance. I'll try and get back for a better look/pics if the bird in question is still around.

It was spotted from the Findon to Lancng ring footpaths, Ive tried to get a rough googlemap location(hope this works) 50.848692, -0.326425

cheers

And keep your eyes open for a reported fem/1w Lapland that came in off over Pagham on Friday ;) (dark legs!)
 
Looks like consensus in this thread will be easy to reach (as allways)

It´s a corn.

Even when the OP has just stated that it was "it was kind of hazy foggy light on that day,seems to suck the contrast from pics",

ie these pictures of the bird are probably a lot less bright than the bird actually was!!!! Just how bright and contrasty do we think plain ol' Corn Buntings get?? . . . ;)
 
Maybe it's the pic but I thought I could see coverts with white tips (probably just the way the pic looks), other than that I have to agree with Reed Bunt.

I didn't realise this thread was still going. I'm amazed that this bird "screams" Corn Bunting to some, it certainly doesn't to me. However, with those coverts, Reed Bunt doesn't either. Coverts to one side, it still gives the "impression" of Reed Bunt to me but, as I have seen many, less than perfect (mystery?), pics which have remained debatable, I am prepared for it to be either Reed or Corn Bunt (or something else).

Kind regards

Johnny Allan
 
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