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UK/Raptor ID please (1 Viewer)

dantheman said:
Someone needs to come up with a measurement for the hawthorn berries ... ;)

The nature of the breast 'spotting' would indicate a falcon sp to me, rather than a Sparrowhawk.

But then is it;-

a) Male Merlin lacking the normal rufous tones underneath?

b) Lesser Kestrel with grey mantle? (ie no!)

c) Lanner? (as mentioned)- but with a miniscule bill and a grey head and looks too small

d) Other falconer's hybrid thing

e) Owl sp. ... (presumably an escape)

I'd go for a) or d), possibly e) , but not knowing the actual size (it looks a bit elongated as if alarmed) not progressing much further ...
Click to expand...

Can't be a-c Dan, and probably not d (if it's a falcon hybrid). They all have dark eyes.

Cheers
Jonathan
 
Last edited:
This post is very interesting... but I have no idea what it is!

I just want to stress out that the bill is quite big and long for an owl or a small raptor such as a Sparrowhawk... the fact that the tail is missing is a major problem too... seems more like a juvenile... The yellow eye may point out to a juvenile accipiter, similar to Cooper's Hawk...
 
Jane Turner said:
Leaves look similar too, which leaves us with Merlin/Little owl on size.
Click to expand...

The problem being it doesnt look like either, certainly doesnt look like an Owl to me, the beak seems to be one of the only features that can be clearly seen and to me it rules out an Owl.
 
Parker said:
I like your thinking Gradders maybe we could introduce the Hawthorn berry as a knew unit of measurement.
How big was it ?
Well I reckon it was about 6.5 berries long.....

Joking apart I think your not far out with the size of the berries, I'd say between 15 & 20mm would cover the majority of Hawthorn berries.


Cheers, Neil.
Click to expand...

They are more like 70-90mm here!
 
Buy your berry measuring device 'ere

Jane Turner said:
I meant 7-9mm!
Click to expand...

That's because you are on the coast and they are all stunted!
and
because as Parker says, berries is THE new measurement :–),
AND 16 x 9mm = 135mm ...
now THAT would be a small raptor. (go on prove me wrong)

(all the berries I've seen on hawthorn vary in size, which is why I tried to choose a larger mature one, with a flat head as a gauge... roll on September! UK Countryside full of strange folk measuring hawthorn berries... wonder how many will! I will t'bsure). (Buy your berry measuring device 'ere, before they all go!).

Photo taken September 09... I'm going for a juvenile....
 
 
I've just picked and measured one of my green unripened Hawthorn berries!...slapped a ruler across, and find that it's c 8x7mm. Thus allowing for more growth I suppose 9-10 is near optimum! Measuring the 'Raptor Eye' it appears to be smaller on depth than the nearest Hawthorn berry! If that's correct...it suggests an eye size at the very 'most' comparable to a Sprawk or smaller...that I believe would rule out any of the larger 'suggestions'.
 
Berries and everthing else apart and I'm too lazy to read the entire thread, why's it not just a first summer male sparrowhawk? It's the sort of place it would hang out. Also how many Hawthorn bushes have berries at this time of year? Winter has only just finished in Scotland. :)
 
Jane Turner said:
More berries with size context

Hmm, how many times bigger than this mouse is our mystery?

http://www.vutrax.co.uk/imgofday/20...rrounded by hawthorn berries(r+mb id@576).jpg

Jane, I don't think those are hawthorn with t'mouse (look at the leaves, and the berries).

If you look at the original photo and take the smaller sized berry and work on the basis that, THAT berry if 9-10mm... end up with the same size (28 berries at 10mm! [rather than 16 berries at 15-20mm]). The berry I chose was bigger (ner ner :–)), but I still reckon were somewhere around 24-32cm.

I think we can agree the larger size raptors can be dismissed.
Yellow eye, (y'know what I mean)
What are we left with?
Peg, Sprawk, Merlin.... ?????
September = probably Juvenile
So it's a....
Click to expand...
 
gradders52 said:
That's because you are on the coast and they are all stunted!
and
because as Parker says, berries is THE new measurement :–),
AND 16 x 9mm = 135mm ...
now THAT would be a small raptor. (go on prove me wrong)

(all the berries I've seen on hawthorn vary in size, which is why I tried to choose a larger mature one, with a flat head as a gauge... roll on September! UK Countryside full of strange folk measuring hawthorn berries... wonder how many will! I will t'bsure). (Buy your berry measuring device 'ere, before they all go!).

Photo taken September 09... I'm going for a juvenile....
Click to expand...


I'll be out with me micrometer in the Autumn G to do a study of size variation with these berries, honest. ;)

Obviously there is going to be a variation in the sizes of these berries but I'll be amazed if their max length is only 9mm.

As for the bird I'm as much in the dark as everyone else.

Neil.
 
It might be worth any seekers of inspiration peering at the cutting edge of the beak a bit

- falcons have a "tooth" well forward on the cutting edge of the beak (which I can sort of see here, unless an artefact?)

- whereas Sparrowhawk has no "tooth", but a usually obvious gentle bump about half way along the cutting edge (which I don't really see here)

Doesn't alter the fact that otherwise it doesn't look like a falcon's head to me at all, what with glaring yellow eye and all....
 
Just a thought, but what if the 'eye' is just a trick of the light in the vegetation (there is another almost round shape lower down and to the right, albeit duller), would the breast markings/wing colours point towards anything more obvious on their own?
 
Stonefaction said:
Just a thought, but what if the 'eye' is just a trick of the light in the vegetation (there is another almost round shape lower down and to the right, albeit duller), would the breast markings/wing colours point towards anything more obvious on their own?
Click to expand...

I can see what you mean but i think its to conviently placed behind the beak to not be an eye.
 
Unless the beak is also a case of us seeing what we expect to see....although it does look beak shaped, and like you say, fits the positioning in relation to the 'eye' nicely.
 
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