Two birds, Cameron Highlands, Malaysia (1 Viewer)

Two pretty awful pics of birds we saw in the car park near Parit Falls, Tanah Rata last month. Dreadful early morning light and taken from a car with the engine running (didn't want to switch it off in case the birds were spooked by it).

1st pic - haven't a clue.

2nd pic ... White-tailed Robin? Numerous in the area. It wasn't our first thought when we saw it, though.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Not sure on the first, but the second looks like a Large Niltava.

Mark

I think you're right on the Niltava, Mark. That wasn't one of our thoughts when we saw it, although we've seen the species several times before, but I prefer Large Niltava to the Robin by a long way.

The other bird had such a distinctive tail that we thought we'd easily id it with reference to the field guide but I'm still not getting any ideas. We've a few more photos but they don't seem to provide any more clues.

I think the other is a Large Niltava too, juvenile male possibly...

could the first bird be a rather worn/wet/battered Rufous-vented Niltava?

I'd also go Large on the second bird.

Rufous-vented was defintely on our list, Gandytron.

Will, our only reference for Large Niltava is Robson (actually that's probably not true, I've certainly got a Birds of Southern India knocking around somewhere and I've a feeling that it's in there) and I can't see anything that suggests the red/orange underparts. I've not had chance to review my field notes yet - they're on a digital recorder 'cos I'm too lazy to write and can't draw, but I'm sure that the bird had a lot of red on it - I'm red/green colour blind, so a bit sketchy on colours like that, but Julie will have contributed. Do you know of any info that confirms that plumage as a possibility? Also, from my limited knowledge of Large Niltava, this bird didn't feel right - much more chat/robin-like in its overall appearance. I've only ever seen LN in trees though, so they might look rather different on the ground.