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Susceptibility to seeing CA (1 Viewer)

I just remembered this old thread on the subject of CA in binoculars. It has photos of the longitudinal CA of several binoculars at the center of the test target I use at both full aperture and stopped down (post #1) and a photo of the way lateral CA looks on the target (post #11).

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=134310

Thanks again,

and while your statement on the green goo being lateral color I also remember lots of purple fringing in the Monarch X. Of course I got rid of it ;)

The stopped-down pictures are interesting and have given me the idea of assessing my scopes with smaller apertures than the actual.
I assume the resolution doesn't suffer from that, maybe it's even advantageous?

//L
 
Brock

That has always been my opinion. In the thumbnail below is a statement I made a while back.

You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but your eyes are sharp enough to read the tiny print in your thumbnail! :)

I had to use my reading glasses.

Brock
 
Absent except for very little at the extreme edges.
Today I used the Fury in a situation where I usually would have used the Zeiss because of the long distance (it's 10x). Good thing the Fury was OK in the center, however CA control is not my highest priority considering the way I use it (in the forest, reed and brush). Still I'm leaning towards a Zen-Ray 7x43 just to make things as close to perfect as I can afford.

my 8x43 ED3 is signficantly better than my 6.5x32 Fury's for lateral CA control. The ED3 can show a *slight* purple/green fringing when pushed in extreme circumstances, whereas the Fury has pretty signficant fringing that is easy to see just outside of the center axis.

of course, I paid more than 3x as much for my ED3's as my Fury, and they are sort of a different class since the ED3's are much larger and heavier. But they are definitely better in lateral CA (among other things).
 
my 8x43 ED3 is signficantly better than my 6.5x32 Fury's for lateral CA control. The ED3 can show a *slight* purple/green fringing when pushed in extreme circumstances, whereas the Fury has pretty signficant fringing that is easy to see just outside of the center axis.

of course, I paid more than 3x as much for my ED3's as my Fury, and they are sort of a different class since the ED3's are much larger and heavier. But they are definitely better in lateral CA (among other things).

I always center the bird and keep my eyes straight forward, so as long as the sweet spot is decent I'm fine. The Fury has never let me down in any birding situations at moderate distances, on the contrary, it's speed of use and easy view continues to impress on me.

But you know, if something might get even better...It's the exit pupil I'm after. My eyes still dilate to about 6 mm although I'm soon 47.

Being able to see in the last light of the day is appealing to me. We have long dusk periods in Sweden because of the oblique angle with which the Sun hits the horizon. The slumbering idea of using a Bushnell Elite 2.5x booster is another reason.

//L
 
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From an anatomical standpoint, why do some individuals see significant CA in a particular binocular while others look through the same binocular and see none ?
For me it is visible in all optics, in varying degrees of severity. I had no problem seeing it in the outer edges of the Caldera even though they have ED glass. I asked both Roger Cox and John Dracon if they saw CA in their Minox Porro's. They don't, but I see quite a bit in mine. I've included image files of their statements.

Thanks Bruce

Going back to the OP, "seeing CA" is almost universally accepted as the perception of lateral color or color fringing. It is a symptom of the aberration, but not exactly a direct measure of the aberration itself. There are other symptoms as well, such as image deterioration that leads to degraded visual acuity (perceived sharpness). These perceptions, however, are also influenced by viewing conditions, as well as what the observer expects or demands of an instrument based on prior experience. The latter might be thought of as the individual's tolerance for CA, which often increases when an external object of interest captures attention, but decrease when the instrument itself is examined. An unpredictable human foible.

From an anatomical standpoint (an interesting choice of words) it comes down to how an individual's visual system processes information. The eye is in fact an anatomical extension of the brain, not separate from it as many people believe. So, anatomically, the visual system is really (eye + brain).

The perception of color fringes is arguably affected by both illumination and transmission. It is self-evident that fringing is not visible under narrow-band monochromatic lighting conditions, even when massive CA may be part of the instrument's optical design. When viewed monochromatically one can not even see a spectral band from a prism.

Although much more complex and poorly understood, lens coatings must also influence fringe perception due to the characteristics of the luminous intensity distribution presented to the eyes. Historically, it seems pretty compelling to me that by increasing the efficiency of multicoatings (i.e., creating flatter transmission curves), CA awareness was inevitably introduced to the population because of annoying fringe perceptions. This, I would argue, helps to explain why older instruments, of essentially the same design, seem to be better controlled for CA. Ironically, it is as if master opticians of the past were replaced by modern dolts.

It wouldn't be the first time, however, that a technological advance in one area has created collateral issues to be overcome by progress in another. In this instance, I would argue, the routine use of ED glass finally became necessary to control the underlying cause: optical CA inherent in the design that in earlier times was less conspicuous and, hence, acceptable.

Just my take on the situation, of course, which captures a lot of what was said previously and is not intended to be confrontational. In this arena I think we are much like the proverbial blind men describing an elephant.

Ed
 
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From an anatomical standpoint, why do some individuals see significant CA in a particular binocular while others look through the same binocular and see none ?
For me it is visible in all optics, in varying degrees of severity. I had no problem seeing it in the outer edges of the Caldera even though they have ED glass. I asked both Roger Cox and John Dracon if they saw CA in their Minox Porro's. They don't, but I see quite a bit in mine. I've included image files of their statements.

Thanks Bruce
Read the literature on Lutein/Zeaxanthin
A good primer...
http://www.eyecarotenoids.com/biologicmechanisms.pdf

Quick View
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...GcD2e5&sig=AHIEtbRecThnFspQfB7CK2n2f_pfCArFXA
 
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Today I found more CA in my Fury than I have before. When watching sun-lit white gulls on a deep blue sea, there was quite a lot just a little bit off-center.

Today I repeated the gull-on-sea watching with the Fury.
Weather conditions were identical, with cold weather, brightly shining sun and deep blue sea.
I specifically looked for the CA but it was gone. Zip. Nada. Nil.

What I didn't mention in the quoted post was that I used contact lenses that day, not spectacles as I use to with the Fury.
Stupidly, I forgot to take the specs off today to look for CA.

There are a few possible explanations why I saw the CA with contacts but not with specs:

1) Eye relief matters
2) Eye movements are different when I use contacts
3) My spectacle lenses inhibit the CA of the optical train
4) The contacts induce CA in the optical train. (hasn't happened with my other bins or scopes, though).
5) Other factors as pointed out by other thread contributors.

//L
 
Today I repeated the gull-on-sea watching with the Fury.
Weather conditions were identical, with cold weather, brightly shining sun and deep blue sea.
I specifically looked for the CA but it was gone. Zip. Nada. Nil.

What I didn't mention in the quoted post was that I used contact lenses that day, not spectacles as I use to with the Fury.
Stupidly, I forgot to take the specs off today to look for CA.

There are a few possible explanations why I saw the CA with contacts but not with specs:

1) Eye relief matters
2) Eye movements are different when I use contacts
3) My spectacle lenses inhibit the CA of the optical train
4) The contacts induce CA in the optical train. (hasn't happened with my other bins or scopes, though).
5) Other factors as pointed out by other thread contributors.

//L

Looksharp?

Sounds like you having quite a time. A while back I mentioned improving
your vision with Lasik eye surgery. This post and your struggles, makes me think you should consult one of your fellow optical types.
If you are young enough to improve your vision, while able to enjoy your hobbies, consider it. ;)
I do recommend.

Jerry
 
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Looksharp?

Sounds like you having quite a time. A while back I mentioned improving
your vision with Lasik eye surgery. This post and your struggles, makes me think you should consult one of your fellow optical types.
If you are young enough to improve your vision, while able to enjoy your hobbies, consider it. ;)
I do recommend.

Jerry

Nay. I know what I'm doing and I don't have problems with that. Most of the time I use spectacles, and my Fury works the best with spectacles, while my Zeiss 10x32 is fine with either.
Sometimes I prefer the freedom and lightness that contacts provide, and with the latest power update I have very, very good VA with them.
Subjectively, I feel that they even give some sharpness advantage over my spectacles, probably because they don't cause any minification of the retinal image.

But my age begins to show because it's sheer terror to try to read w/o reading glasses when I use the contacts.
AND I have an exophoria that I correct with a prism component in the power of my spectacles.
Some days I'd get a lot of eye strain without them, and occasionally I misjudge my present condition, resulting in a "Bad Lens Day" :-O.

The only surgery I'd really be helped from would be the one that made my eyes look straight forward even when I relax completely.
But using spectacles is not a problem for me, and I seldom experience double-vision during the day.

//L
 
This is a recent post from Candle Power Forums. I'm not sure if it has any relevance to my original question or not.
 

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I am presently in the process of evaluating a pair of ZEN ED2 8X43 . I have never had trouble seeing CA in any binocular, including the Kruger Caldera, until I got a look through the ED2. To my eyes, CA is not present in the image except at the extreme edge, and then only in the most severe conditions. Under any normal viewing condition, I can't imagine CA being a problem.

Bruce
 
yeah, the Zen ED's are the best I've used in this respect. The Vortex Viper HD I tried was mighty impressive too, a very close 2nd, but it was a teensy bit easier to induce color fringing, although at no point was it bothersome. But of course the Vipers I was using were 8x32 HD, I would assume the longer barreled 42mm class Viper HD's would be effectively equal to the Zen ED in this respect.

With the Zen ED's you have to really consciously go looking for it, but it IS there, I can induce slight purple/green fringing anywhere outside the center 20-30% of the field with my 8x43 ED3. But it is so slight that unless you are super sensitive or really trying hard to look for it you would never see it.... for practical purposes in "real world" use there is basically no meaningful lateral CA.
 
The first week i used my Minox BV binoculars, my eyes(brain?) never noticed any CA.
The second week my brain developped some kind of -new skill- that forced me, everytime i watched through the glass, to visualize and analyze textures of buildings, rocks, birds, etc.
Briefly, my brain trained and analyzed deeper the visual objects avalaible to my eyes, a thing i never did when looking through bad quality glasses.
Therefore i developped the -bad- ability to see CA. And my brain notices it almost everytime im watching through some glass, even ED (my apo refractor).
The brain is like a muscle, and it's not special to see, after some training, things you never seen before.
It could be interesting to make a test.
Do not look through any binocular during 2-4 weeks, and after this time is elapsed, look through your bins, try to detect CA.
It would be funny to see the brain, acting as a muscle that didn't receive any effort during weeks, loosing its strenght.
 
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