Compact 20-25mm roof prisms for under $200 or 100 pounds (1 Viewer)

I have fairly new ProStaff porros, so I will not be buying compacts for a while. I have a binocular budget. :'D

But for all those people that want compact roof prisms that fold small, have super optics and can't cost much, we are open for discussion. I will refer to this thread when the next person comes along to complain about Travelites with parts falling off.

I have found mine! I rejected Audubon 10x25 roof prisms, they were not as sharp as my ProStaffs (also available at 9x and 8x). But I was in a sports store and they had these:
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4172
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4170
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=3302

They are phase coated, so brightness and clarity were obvious. The lowest ones were not there, I just listed them as they are waterproof.

My philosophy is that I may be willing to invest in some 30-40mm roof prisms that cost 500 or more some day, but my 25mm pairs are just back up. I do my serious birding with 40 and 42mm binoculars. So I am not willing to spend more on these than my main binoculars.

I am faced again with the 8x vs. 10x here. With the compacts I am almost sold on the 8x model, though if they were made in 9x I would try to get them even sooner. I am looking for 9x models at all times to check out. I may wait a year on these. I hope they sell them then.

The Eagle Optics prices are good, I did not find them at Optics Planet.

TO SAVE SOME READING::MY LAST POST HAS:

PS
Ended up with simple Minolta Sport Mini 8x25 roof prisms. They fullfill my compactness needs, and I think in this price class the 10x would be useless. The Minolta had a slight edge over the Sporstar 8x, though they look almost identical.

Click to expand...

Tero said:

I have fairly new ProStaff porros, so I will not be buying compacts for a while. I have a binocular budget. :'D

But for all those people that want compact roof prisms that fold small, have super optics and can't cost much, we are open for discussion. I will refer to this thread when the next person comes along to complain about Travelites with parts falling off.

I have found mine! I rejected Audubon 10x25 roof prisms, they were not as sharp as my ProStaffs (also available at 9x and 8x). But I was in a sports store and they had these:
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4172
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4170
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=3302

They are phase coated, so brightness and clarity were obvious. The lowest ones were not there, I just listed them as they are waterproof.

My philosophy is that I may be willing to invest in some 30-40mm roof prisms that cost 500 or more some day, but my 25mm pairs are just back up. I do my serious birding with 40 and 42mm binoculars. So I am not willing to spend more on these than my main binoculars.

I am faced again with the 8x vs. 10x here. With the compacts I am almost sold on the 8x model, though if they were made in 9x I would try to get them even sooner. I am looking for 9x models at all times to check out. I may wait a year on these. I hope they sell them then.

The Eagle Optics prices are good, I did not find them at Optics Planet.

Click to expand...

I notice in various threads that you are an ardent fan of Nikon Travelite,something which I am slightly puzzled by having had a brief if painful encounter with a pair bought on fleabay I was not overly impressed with the optical performance,but these Pentax are a different ball game,they are one of a number of models from various manufacturers which sell in the £100 - £120 bracket,and come very very close to the Trinovid/Ultravid benchmark in terms of optical performance but all miss out at the 8x end for size,Leica are only 92mm and it is a big difference for pocketability.
I am just starting out in birding but strangely I find 20 -25 mm optics more attractive than 32/42.I have a pair of Opticron Discovery 8x42,having contacted a reputable dealer and asked for advice on a good reasonably priced model, he said quite simply that in his opinion of all the models he had in stock including all the big guns,Leica,Swaro's,Zeiss,etc they were an absolute steal,I have nothing x42 to compare them with, but they sure are pin sharp and very bright,so why do I prefer 20-25mm?
Well Opticron's are bulky and heavy,I am surprised that I have never read anything on here about neck strain, I certainly would not want to go a day with them on my neck,and they are too big for average pockets so I tend to leave them at home a lot,I am about to exchange Opticron Taiga 8x25 bought a couple of days ago for Leica Trinovid purely because the Opticron are just outside shirt pocket size and if I am going to carry a pair with me at all times it will be the Leica's,no question about quality,mega guarantee, but whether they are worth the extra money who knows,I posted elsewhere that I could not justify the extra price when I bought the Opticron's but when I got them home I realised that they were just on the bulky side of shirt pocket size,so contacted the shop, Black and Lizars in Glasgow ,who not only agreed to take them back but gave me £40 off, the Leica's,shop price is £289 but I was fortunate to get the manager who gave them to me for £249.
I will be glad to get rest on this as I know that they will fit my requirements of quality and are a size that I can have with me at all times,do you guys carry x32's/42's with you everywhere you go?

I did not compare my Nikons to these, it was just an introduction to my needs. (besides, I already have rated them in a porro section where someone else discussed Opticron porros). Someone else can bring up Nikon ROOF PRISMS if they fit the category and are worth a look.

I was thinking more of just the roof prisms here, so we can leave the Travelites and Opticron Taigas and other porros out of the discussion. We are only comparing roof prisms to roof prisms. I did this because there are a number of Compact THIS and THAT threads out there in this forum.

Check out the Minox and Pentax 25mm roofs. I may have set the price limit too low, yours may run 150 pounds out there.

Tero,

I have mentioned it before but thought I would comment on them again. The Nikon Sportstar 8x25s with the 8.2 Field of View are excellent optics for the price in my opinion. The image is very crisp and the exceptionally wide field of view is enhanced by the fact that a good 3/4s of the image is in focus. Very little distortion along the outside edge of the image. Price is typically between $60 and $80 US.

The drawbacks? Well, for one the eye relief is only 10 mm. This will pose a problem for folks that wear eyeglasses but not for those of us who typically prefer longer eye relief because of just facial dimensions. The smaller barrel/eyepiece diameter of the compacts allows them to get closer to the eye without having to adjust the interpupillary distance.

Second, they are not phase coated but considering the optical quality I really do not mind.

Third, they are only water resistant though I do not plan on dunking them any time soon.

As an aside, Nikon has now introduced the Sportstar IV which have greater eye relief (15 mm) but a narrower field of view...around 6.5 degrees if memory serves me correctly. They are also waterproof. Nikon also redesigned the current Sportstar models and have dubbed them something different. I do not have the catalog in front of me so I cannot provide the new name.

Lastly, I saw someone mention the new 8x28 Bushnell Excursion compacts. They are phase coated and priced around $100. I would give them a serious look considering the advertised characteristics and price.

Hope this is what you are looking for.

Tero,

I have mentioned it before but thought I would comment on them again. The Nikon Sportstar 8x25s with the 8.2 Field of View are excellent optics for the price in my opinion. The image is very crisp and the exceptionally wide field of view is enhanced by the fact that a good 3/4s of the image is in focus. Very little distortion along the outside edge of the image. Price is typically between $60 and $80 US.

The drawbacks? Well, for one the eye relief is only 10 mm. This will pose a problem for folks that wear eyeglasses but not for those of us who typically prefer longer eye relief because of just facial dimensions. The smaller barrel/eyepiece diameter of the compacts allows them to get closer to the eye without having to adjust the interpupillary distance.

Second, they are not phase coated but considering the optical quality I really do not mind.

Third, they are only water resistant though I do not plan on dunking them any time soon.

As an aside, Nikon has now introduced the Sportstar IV which have greater eye relief (15 mm) but a narrower field of view...around 6.5 degrees if memory serves me correctly. They are also waterproof. Nikon also redesigned the current Sportstar models and have dubbed them something different. I do not have the catalog in front of me so I cannot provide the new name.

Lastly, I saw someone mention the new 8x28 Bushnell Excursion compacts. They are phase coated and priced around $100. I would give them a serious look considering the advertised characteristics and price. I do not know if those are the models you listed in the links above as I cannot access Eagle Optics from here at work.

Hope this is what you are looking for.

I presume the 10x28 Excursion are also worth a look?
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4489
And the Minox? Anyone?

Cabelas sells a 10x28 compact of their own brand, fairly nice. Somewhere in
www.cabelas.com/

It was fairly bright and I would be happy to use it otherwise, but the field of view was only 4.9 degrees. Price a little over 200 dollars.


I'm still a little confused with the listings for Sportstars, some stores list them as Sportstar IV, but this link in any case gives a wider FOV than previous Sportstar models
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=3935

The ones Frank has seen may be these

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4534

I saw the Pentax DCF MC II 8x25 a second time, but as I know there are models with wider FOV, I guess I will look more. Even the Sportstars may suit me better if they have fairly decent optics, perhaps the 8x version. But my goal is a 10x25 with FOV over 300ft, phase coated if possible.

There was one recommendation for these in a different thread.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=413
Not phase coated.

I'm still wondering about the Pentax bins, if I had them side by side with some that are not phase coated, at 8x, could I tell the difference?

Tero said:

I'm still wondering about the Pentax bins, if I had them side by side with some that are not phase coated, at 8x, could I tell the difference?

Click to expand...

I have the 8x25 DCF MCII and its earlier brother the 8x22 DCF MC. They are both very nice. (Though, I feel I should point out since sometimes they are incorrectly advertised, that they are weather resistant but, not waterproof.) These are great little binoculars and have stood up well to a significant amount of abuse on my part. Their image quality is also excellent. I would be very surprised if you could not see the difference between binoculars that were and were not phase coated.

Tero said:

...my goal is a 10x25 with FOV over 300ft, phase coated if possible.

Click to expand...

I only know of two roof prism compacts in 10x that have a FOV of over 300 ft. They are the Brunton Epoch (314 ft) and the Nikon Sportstar (340 ft.) The rest seem to fall into the 260-290 foot range. The Brunton is rather overpriced at $670. It might be nice but at that price, who's going to take the risk? The Nikon is not phase coated and has eye relief that is way too short for me so, it would never be a consideration.

Tero said:

...if they were made in 9x I would try to get them even sooner. I am looking for 9x models at all times to check out.

Click to expand...

Have you by chance, ever looked at the 9x25 Bushnell Legend roofs? What did you think of them?

They seem to have a lot going for them:
Phase coated
Waterproof
Single Hinge Design
283 ft FOV
18mm of Eye Relief

Have not seen them, I have only seen a few Bushnells, some old 7x Legends. They don't carry a lot of them in my stores. But, yes, its been on my list, thanks for reminding me.

The Bushnell Excursion
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=81481&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults
also looks good. A bit large at 28mm. I called Bass Pro Shop and they have none, actually only porro compacts here in town.

I got to see 8x and 10x Nikon Sportstars (though spent more time with the 10x). I was not that impressed. If you only want to spend 100 dollars on compacts, try the various porros. Nikon, Opticron etc. If you want that quality in a compact roof prism, the Pentaxes come close, at 8x and 10x. I have not been able to check out the Bushnells. Cabela's opens here spring of 2007, but in Nebraska they had no Bushnell compacts to show me...

Also saw the cheap Bruntons
http://www.opticsplanet.net/brunton...ulars-5058.html

what surprised me is that they were not that much worse than the Nikons. Both better than no binoculars, or the 20 dollar Bushnells I keep in my bike bag.

If you think you want the Sportstars for a casual bin, get the 8x, the 10x does not focus well in the distance, so get the best FOV at 8x. Same for Audubon 10x25 roof prisms.

I was on a trip and wandered into a store, tried some binoculars. Threre were a few brands of cheaper roof prisms. Compared 8x and 10x. For the first time I noticed a shake in my hands at 10x. I concluded that those 10x25s, including the Sportstar, are too light! At 8x they were OK to hold. The compact and full size porros I have and the Monarch 10x are fine, my hands don't shake with those.

Earlier I took a quick look at the 10x25 Nikon Premier and they were indeed as good as full size roof prisms. If someone insists on 10x25, IN CONCLUSION, I can recommend saving up for the Nikon Premier for $400 or so or the Pentax in the upper post for $130-150. The Minox may also be OK, I did not see it yet. I have seen one pair of Bushnell comaparable to the Sportstar and the dealer could not tell what they were!

One other interesting model I never got to see:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/steiner-8-5x26-wildlife-binoculars.html
I like the fact that they offer the 8.5x in a small size. And they did not name it Predator! The eye cups would take some getting used to.

And an under 200 dollar Kowa
http://www.opticsplanet.net/kowa-8x25-roof-prism-binoculars.html

PSS
Ended up with simple Minolta Sport Mini 8x25 roof prisms. They fullfill my compactness needs, and I think in this price class the 10x would be useless. The Minolta had a slight edge over the Sporstar 8x, though they look almost identical. I had a Travelite V reverse porro at 9x to compare, and the Travelite definitely was brighter. The Minolta Sport Mini is sharp enough for casual birding, and FOV is some 6 degrees. They are rated as water resistant.

I think I will not be saving up for any 10x25 Nikon Premier or even a Zeiss. If I need one more roof prism, a nicer one, it will be about 30mm.

A number of these are listed here
http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/002-8822289-7331213?redirect=true&node=493758
but my model, under 50 dollars, is unavailable through them. I would give the other Minolta Konicas a spin, if you see them. The
Konica Minolta Activa 8x25 Sport Waterproof Compact Binoculars look OK.

After a week of use, I am still happy with the Minoltas. They were especially nice and light looking straight up into a tree. I put no strap on these so they are easy to pull out of the pocket at any time.

7-24
STILL very happy with the Minoltas. The eye cups are just big enough, and at 8x, these are pretty versatile. Field of view is enough at 6.2 deg to catch some flying birds even. Not sure where you would find them, but Sheels Sports carries them. Also Amazon, see above, for very similar models.

I'm wondeing if anyone tried Bushnell 8X25 Legacy Folding-Roof Prisms. Sells for about 50 bucks. Its for my wife as a general binocular, not birding.

Still not a fan of either Nikon Sportstar, but especially not 10x.

I once owned a 8x25 (or was it 10x?) Legacy back when they wore the B&L badge and it was fine but, it wasn't very rugged. It lasted me about a year and a half before it basically fell apart.

To be fair, I should point out that I'm pretty hard on my gear so; if it had been owned by someone who would have treated it to more reasonable care, it might have lasted a whole lot longer.

A quick peek at the Bushnell website shows that these compact Legacy models are no longer listed. This might make finding them a bit more difficult. The Legacy line is still offered but, it consists of only 3 full-size porro prism binoculars.

It was one of a few models listed in Amazon. Also some Celestrons*, 8x25, similar price. She will use these only a few times a year on vacations.

*The Celestrons were awful, the worst of the bunch. I got a refund, except for shipping.

I went back and looked at Nikon Sportstar 8x. I was quite impressed, Frank was right. There is a world of difference between the 10x, which I had for a week and returned, and the 8x. With the 8.2 deg FOV, it is also one of the best in that respect. So we will have two of these now, the Nikons and the similar Minoltas, sold out most places, I got for 45 dollars, with slightly less FOV. My wife gets one pair, whichever fits in her camera bag. Though both may fit.

I checked out the Sportstar 8x against the 8x Minolta. The Minolta has a bigger sweet spot, almost to the edge sideways but not too far up and down. But since the Sportstar has a wider FOV, it will be easier for my wife to use.In good light anyway. I would have gotten her the Pentax if she used them a lot but she does not. The 10x Sportstar had no sweet spot, just a less blurry spot in the middle.

So for a casual binocular, quite useful. I think it will work OK on a cloudy day even. The Pentax DCF 8x25 is still the best for under 200.

I am curious to hear about these
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4458
in comparison to the Sportstar. The advantage is the waterproofness, if optics are similar. No wide FOV, though.

Had a chance to look at the Pentax 10x25 DCF again. Not as impressed with them as with the 8x. So only the high end Nikon passes my test for 10x25 roofs. If you need compact 10x, reverse porros at some $70-120 are going to be as good. Same for 8x. Strangely, the older discontinued models of revers porros had the widest FOV. My best ones at 8x I got for 25 dollars, Minoltas.

I went back and looked at Nikon Sportstar 8x. I was quite impressed, Frank was right. There is a world of difference between the 10x, which I had for a week and returned, and the 8x. With the 8.2 deg FOV, it is also one of the best in that respect.

Click to expand...

Sorry I missed this last month Tero. I just had my 8x Sportstars out with me today. I continue to be amazed at the optical quality from a $70 compact roof prism. They are infinitely better than the Tasco, Bushnell and Simmons compacts that everyone buys and never uses. Image quality to me was very comparable to the Nikon Sporters though, ofcourse the image was not as bright or quite as well resolved. Their only negative was their 10 mm of eye relief. Short for eyeglass wearers but definitely adequate for everyone else.

The 8x models seem to be a good compromise. I think there were some 10x Steiners that might be OK, never checked them all out. Just looking up the usual sites, The Steiner Predator Pro 8x22 Pocket Binoculars seem like ones that might work, for the under $200 category, but I have not looked at them lately, or Steiner 10x25.

Somehow the shape of Steiners gets me a little confused right off, I forget the optics as I paly with all the other parts.