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Bushnell Legend Ultra HD: $300 Chinese ED from Bushnell (1 Viewer)

Kevin Purcell

Well-known member
http://libertyoptics.blogspot.com/2009/01/shot-show-report-day-2.html

I did not examine any binos but I will try to check out the new high end models including the new Legend Ultra HDs.

They actually announced these on Jan 3 but we missed them!

http://howardcommunications.com/bus...erformance-in-legend-ultra-hd-binoculars.html

Overland Park, KS — Hunters and outdoorsmen have always valued the Legend series of binoculars from Bushnell for their ruggedness, performance and value. For 2009, Bushnell combines high quality optics and premium glass with the new Ultra Wide Custom Coating lens technology to provide the ultimate in high definition performance in two new roof prism models — the Legend Ultra-HD 8x42mm and 10x42mm. The new anti-reflective Ultra Wide Custom Coating delivers the best available light from the front lens to the eyepiece. Premium ED (Extra Low Dispersion) glass delivers optimal color performance and edge-to-edge sharpness.

Compared to similarly price optics, the Legend Ultra HD binoculars deliver a wider field of view (12 percent more than standard 10x binoculars). They are also more comfortable to use. Longer eye relief means less eye strain. The new Legend Ultra-HD binoculars are built on a lightweight, durable magnesium chassis. The lighter weight combined with new Soft Touch rubber thumb and finger grips result in binoculars that are easy to carry in the field. As a bonus they come with a Deluxe binocular harness with pre-attached neckstrap lugs that distributes the weight of the binoculars more evenly across your back.

The Legend Ultra-HD binoculars provide all weather performance with their 100 percent waterproof construction and new RainGuard® HD high-density permanent coating that eliminates external fogging.

Both models are available in black and the 10x42 model is also available in Realtree® AP™ Camo. They come complete with a premium carrying case, neck strap and custom binocular harness. Suggested retail prices are: 8x42 - $289.95 and 10x42 - $299.95. They are available at Bushnell dealers nationwide.

Legend Ultra-HD Product Specifications:

Model
Magnifi-cation
Objective Lens
Focus
Prism
Field of View ft. @ 1000 yds.
Exit Pupil (mm)
Eye Relief (mm)
Weight (oz)
Retail Price

19-8042
8x
42
Center
Roof
420
4.5
21
22.4
$289.95

19-1042
10x
42
Center
Roof
340
4.2
21
22.5
$299.95

19-8043 (AP Camo)
10x
42
Center
Roof
340
4.2
21
22.5
$309.95

As light as the Elite (at 22 and a bit ounces). Only a $10 10x tax. Wide FOV. ED glass.

One odd thing is their exit pupil in the table above ... 4.5mm for an 8x42? Is it baffled or is it a typo?

Very interesting. Their latest non-ED Legend roof is quite good. This is the next step up? And aggressive pricing?

Not on the Bushnell web site yet.
 
Well, as long as they fix that loose diopter ring from the Excursion EX. ;) If these have an open frame, it may be part of the same. If they have the regular Legend look, that would be better. For Bushnell. I like my open frame OK, but it can become a weak point.
 
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I've seen no loose diopter ring on either the Excusrion EX I had or the Legened 8x42 roof I have.

It will be interesting to see if these are open-bridge or not. As they didn't mention it in the PR I suspect these will look like the current Legend product style. Bushnell is going to have a bit of a problem with their millions of families lined up by price points (e.g. the E2 open bridge.

And if the Legends have ED glass then what's up with the Elite and E2 that don't and the Elite just got a bump 6 months ago. Seems like they may have some interesting issues with a sort of price/quality inversion. Unless they make sure they're worse so they sell more of the Elites and E2 ;)
 
The cynic in me wonders if this is the same basic open frame Promaster or Hawke or ZEN glass and what we see in the price structure is an attempt by Bushnell to push everybody else out of that design, or if it is an "improved" Excursion EX glass with slightly less quality than the Promaster et. al? Or just how the new Nikon Monarch fits into this as well. Well, we all thought this was a pretty good binocular, so it will be interesting to see where this all goes.
 
Given the naming and the pricing an improved Legend is rather more likely than an improved Excursion or Excursion EX: it's about $100 more than a current Legend 8x42 perhaps less in street price terms (it's difficult to know with Bushnell pricing: is that in wacky Bushnell dollars, if so the street price will be even lower).

It won't be the same as the other open-bridge ED designs (if for no other reason that its 3oz lighter).

So I think a better mental model is a Legend 8x42 with ED glass and perhaps slightly better coatings. Probably a closed-bridge design.

I think Bushnell have a sensible "pile it high; sell 'em cheap". After all Hawke must have though the Frontier ED fairly priced at $429 before it go the rave reviews ;)

I think the more interesting question might be how this affects Vortex. Precisely which model do Vortex see as competing with this? I don't see one right now as the Viper seems closer but is $200 more. Perhaps the currently mythical unreleased Vortex Dragon (the obvious name for a Chinese ED right ;) ) that they can't possibly comment on right now.

This sort of thing is the disruptive change in the binocular industry that I commented on about 6 months ago.

The new Nikon Monarch I would guess is not ED. New mechanical design and perhaps newer coatings and perhaps an EP redesign for a bigger FOV. But that's all speculation.
 
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I've seen no loose diopter ring on either the Excusrion EX I had or the Legened 8x42 roof I have.
Which size EX did you get?

I somehow got the imprssion my diopter was centered at 0 and somehow got way off in a few days of use. If it was off to start with, that may be something that can be fixed.

Legend roofs I have trusted, at least a year or two on the 8x32.
 
No picture on that blog or Bushnell's website. But the spec does look like an ED version of Excursion. Same 420ft FOV, weight is about the same. Vortex's Dragon (is it real or something you made up?) will be Diamondback on ED? Another question is whether it is based on Excursion EX with open hinge or traditional Excursion.
 
One can hope that after the SHOT show closes and everybody gets back to business, that some of this will actually show up on various websites. We will also see what there is of the new releases that are really ready to be released. We have all seen new product revelations come out so far in advance of any release as to be laughable.

ED has come to mean Extended Debate and HD Heated Debate.

As long as we are speculating. it would seem to make the most sense to put the new model in a dressed up traditional roof hinge. But I wonder if the Excursion EX won't morph over into the new Legend, just because the open bridge seems to be the latest thing.

Now, darn it with all this new stuff, do I dare buy a new anything?
 
Is this what the optics industry has decended into, rebranded clones from Chinese factories.

Good Lord!

Clones of what? Their original designs they've just done by Chinese engineers. I don't see anything bad in that.

I've also mentioned the difference between OEMs and ODMs here before and the range of interactions you can have with them. That interaction goes from just applying branding to a known design through buying exclusive rights to that design, to doing custom armor for it (and all the other bits and pieces that comes with the bin), to tinkering with a current design or even replacing a chunk with your own design (new EP?) to working with the ODM to develop a new exclusive design.

It all depends how many optical and mechanical engineers you employ in your company and what the companies goals are.

Bushnell are in the middle on this, I think. At the bottom end they have consistent rebranding. From the midrange up (e.g. the Excursions) they do their own design branding with their own armor look but seem to use an existing design (see discussion here previously about Diamondback and Excursion shared optics). For the Legend (which is another step up) they add some more features (like Rainguard) and more upmarket design including better optical design. Above that level I think they have more input into the design process. For example I suspect they had significant input into the optical design of the Elite but that was made in Japan.

But I wonder how this is changing with time. The Chinese optical companies (quite a few of which were at SHOT) are moving upmarket and I think they can accommodate whatever needs you have.

So I think calling them mere "cloners" is a bit of a slight on the Chinese companies that design and build them.

No picture on that blog or Bushnell's website. But the spec does look like an ED version of Excursion. Same 420ft FOV, weight is about the same. Vortex's Dragon (is it real or something you made up?) will be Diamondback on ED? Another question is whether it is based on Excursion EX with open hinge or traditional Excursion.

This will be a Legend not an Excursion. That's up one gear: slightly better optics, coatings and in this case glass. How it all pans out we can't yet know!

And 420 feet (8 degrees) is pretty much a standard spec for a "wide" FOV. There is nothing unique about that today.

BTW, I made up the name and the idea of the Vortex Dragon (though it's a good name, eh? Send email for a licensing deal ;) ) as some hypothetical Vortex Chinese ED that seems to generate a "no comment" + a smilie from their rep on this board ;) But it seems like this Legend is there to compete with say the Vortex Fury range (above the Diamondback but below the Razor). Their two product lines don't quite match up.

Tero: The Excursion EX I had was an 8x36 which I returned because of excessive CA (now that's a real optical issue!). I have a Excursion 10x42 which has no problems (it has a view very similar to the Diamondback 8x42 I have). No have had any mechanical isssues (except perhaps for a small diopter offset which seems to be common at this price level)
 
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As long as we are speculating. it would seem to make the most sense to put the new model in a dressed up traditional roof hinge. But I wonder if the Excursion EX won't morph over into the new Legend, just because the open bridge seems to be the latest thing.

Agreed. I did say this in my opening post that I suspect they will keep the same look as the other Legend models (after all that's what the brand family is supposed to be before) so this will be a closed-hinge ED.

Bushnell seem to be taking a different direction to a lot of the other folks who use Chinese OEMs.

For example, Bushnell has been "breaking the rule" that expensive bins are open-bridge and lesser bins are closed-bridge. They started that with the Excursion EX with open-bridge enclosures married up to Diamondback (i.e. $200 roof) optics. I wasn't very impressed with the optics though I do love the handling of the 36mm open-bridge enclosure they use which we haven't seen elsewhere (a Bushnell exclusive perhaps or just the first big buyer?).

I think we'll see this more and more as open-bridge enclosures get cheaper to make. They'll move down the product line.

Now, darn it with all this new stuff, do I dare buy a new anything?

Quite ;)

It's a shame none of it's in stores. I suspect we'll see these new models by spring. At this point their just clueing in the dealers on what products to order for the next year.
 
Is this what the optics industry has decended into, rebranded clones from Chinese factories.

Good Lord!
That was the Bushnell business model all along.

Back to the Excursions: I had the Excursion 8x42 for a week. It was OK, but I am still rejecting all the Excursion EXs.
 
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Hmm, so an extra wide field of view (for a $300 roof market dominated by 330 feet at 8x) ED roof prism glass selling for $290. Sounds to me like Bushnell is taking a shot at the likes of the Promaster, Hawke and Zen Ray.

Maybe I missed it but was there any mention of the oil and water resistant coatings?
 
I would like to see if they pulled off similar image quality at a noticeably lighter weight. I enjoy a light weight binocular as much as the next guy but only to a point. If the balance is as nice as the Zen Ray then it may be a keeper.
 
Maybe I missed it but was there any mention of the oil and water resistant coatings?

Yes, it's in the PR.

They get Rainguard like the other Legends. But now in the form of Rainguard HD ... so it must be better. More repellant. Or something.

I really like my PM Elite ELX but a if the Bushy is comparable optically and way lighter, LINE ME UP.

Yeap, that what I was thinking. I do like my Elite because its a lightweight and does well with stray light but it could be sharper. Somehow I don't think they'll make and Elite killer (they're not that daft).

I would like to see if they pulled off similar image quality at a noticeably lighter weight. I enjoy a light weight binocular as much as the next guy but only to a point. If the balance is as nice as the Zen Ray then it may be a keeper.

I also note that even though its a lightweight bin it comes with a harness (as well as or instead of?) a strap.

A bit like the car folks including options as standard.
 
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I noticed the harness comment as well and thought "Oh great, how heavy are these babies going to be..." but then they slip in that light weight. I don't get it.

At $290 that puts them $100 less expensive than the Zen Ray which are the least expensive of the new open-bridge roofs. If they are an open-hinge design and all the other specs pan out then they are either....

a) going to have noticeably poorer image quality

b) going to really turn some heads if the optical performance is at the same level as the Zen Ray, etc... but at only 3/4 the price.

This introduction would also explain the recent price drop on the normal Legend roofs. They started right at about the same price as the Monarchs ($290-ish originally for the black 8x42s) then jumped up to about $320-ish when they lightened the models up. Now they are selling for around $210. The introduction of the HD version would explain it. I just don't get how they introduce a potentially advanced model (wider field of view, better coatings and ED glass) for less than what they were selling the previous model for.

Hey, I am not complaining it is just something you don't see every day in the optics market.

;)
 
I am still thinking they just use the Legend name and have the same people make them as the Excursions. So it might be an improved Excursion. It might have some looks of the Legend externally.
 
I am not in favor of a 10x bin less than 27 oz or so. Not me anyway but a 8x40ish at 22oz with optics comparable to the current ED Chinese stuff will make me buy one. I had 2-3 sets of the Elite and liked everything but the resolution/sharpness. One set was better than the other (had two at once) and almost kept it.
Anyhooo I'll be watching. At $350 or higher I'll keep my PM as I am 99% satisfied.

Dave
 
I had 2-3 sets of the Elite and liked everything but the resolution/sharpness.

Agreed which is why it really surprised me that they decided to attack the $300 price point instead of just upgrading the Elites. I guess it should not come as too much of a surprise though as you have to consider that they had that ED FLP scope on the market for about a year now and it sells for less than $500.
 
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