Tips for good brands/ranges? (1 Viewer)

Hi, I want to buy a new pair of binoculars and have a fairly good idea of the sort of thing I want, but have no idea of what the best models currently are.

I am not a hard-core birder but really enjoy bird watching alongside other nature interests that also require binos such as dragonflies, botany, etc. I also might occasionally use binos for casual astronomy. Birding would definitely be a major use, though.

I'm looking for high or very high quality optics but not really high end, perhaps around 500 UK pounds (about 1000 USD?). I do a fair bit of walking/hiking in rainy climates, so they must be waterproof and robust. I would want roof-prism optics and I often, although not always, wear spectacles. Close focus and wide field of view are also very important, especially for the dragonflies! I think for compactness and weight reasons I would go for 40 or 42 objectives rather than 50, but I'm in two minds about whether to go for 8x or 10x. Probably 8x actually.

Can anyone recommend 2 or 3 really good binos that fit the bill? If I need to go up or down slightly in my price range to get the best quality/price ratio, I might do that.

One thing that always used to annoy me about my old binos was that the diopter adjustment was pretty loose and was always moving around.... Also I eventually ruined them by accidentally bouncing them off rocks on a few occasions and throwing them into rucksacks without the lens caps on... I think I would be more careful with a new pair, but it would be useful if they were easy to protect and not too sensitive to the odd knock.

Well, for most of us, the fun is reading all the topics. You may get a few tips. I would say buy a 8x40 roof prism of some sort. Read the topics and sections.

Pentax does not have a section, but they have two neat Papilio bins. Good for really close up and far.

Leica (5 Viewing)
In Praise Of Large Exit Pupils
by angelo225544 Yesterday, 14:42 183 2,345
Nikon (7 Viewing)
Nikon ProStaff
by Tero Yesterday, 08:48 281 3,153
Swarovski (4 Viewing)
Servicing
by barry robson Today, 11:03 149 1,805
Zeiss (8 Viewing)
Zeiss Triple XXX Monocular...
by kabsetz Today, 12:42 173 2,890
Bushnell - Baush & Lomb (4 Viewing)
Bushnell small end 8x and 10x...
by Tero Today, 07:35 82 604
Canon (2 Viewing)
10x30 IS for eyeglass wearers
by hinnark Tuesday 21st November 2006, 03:55 13 223
Leupold
New Leupold Yosemite 6x30
by MacGee Tuesday 28th November 2006, 09:09 24 291
Minox (2 Viewing)
Minox binoculars
by barry robson Saturday 2nd December 2006, 10:09 27 295
Opticron (1 Viewing)
Opticron Verano BGA PC
by dazzauk Yesterday, 15:10 37 237

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My favorite binos for combo butterfly/dragonfly watching and birding are the Zeiss 8x32 FL (but, as much as I find myself using them, I do love to complain about this model's astigmatism--see other threads). They have awesomely bright, color neutral, and sharp (in the center) optics, they focus quickly yet precisely (a major issue for combo use), they close-focus down to 5 feet, they have an 8 degree FOV, and they have good eye-relief. I've used these heavily for birding and butterflying and they perform flawlessly (they are only bettered for butterflying by the Pentax 6.5x21 Papilio with its 18 inch close focus, but the Pentax are not so good for birding). They are my standard against which I judge any other prospective birding/butterflying bino, so I recommend you take a look at them.

I have less experience using the Swarovski 8x32 EL for both birding and butterflying. They (compared to the Zeiss) have better ergonomics, less off-axis astigmatism, and the same FOV, but don't focus quite as closely (6 feet), don't have quite as much eye-relief, are a bit bulkier, have more chromatic aberration, and focus somewhat slower. Still, I like them better for birding than the Zeiss, so if that is your prime use, they might be a better choice depending on your tastes. The Leica 8x32 Ultravid are more compact than the Swarovski, but have less eye-relief and a slightly narrower FOV.

All of these models are smaller and more expensive than what you've suggested that you're looking for, but I haven't found anything larger or cheaper that I like as much for this combination use, despite the fact that I prefer full-sized (42mm) binos for birding. Some full-sized binos combine excellent close-focus and a wide FOV, most notably the (also expensive) Zeiss 8x42 FL. You aren't going to get good close-focus (at least by my standards) or a wide FOV in a 50mm objective bino, and it is hard to get a wide FOV in cheaper optics that is also sharp enough off-axis to allow comfortable truly binocular use at close distances. If I couldn't get the Zeiss 8x32 FL, I'd probably jump down to the Nikon 8x36 Monarch.
--AP

neeb

slightly over your budget Nikon HGL 8x32 can be had for £549 in the UK min focus 7ft ish

http://www.alula.fi/gb/test_nikonHG_and_Swarovksi_EL.html

also the Opticron DBA Oasis 8x42 can be had for £570 in the UK min focus about 7ft

below your buget? The RSPB BG PC 8x32 are really good for £300. and the Opticron Imagic BGA and BGA classic range are both good for around £300-£400

pduxon said:

neeb

slightly over your budget Nikon HGL 8x32 can be had for £549 in the UK min focus 7ft ish

http://www.alula.fi/gb/test_nikonHG_and_Swarovksi_EL.html

also the Opticron DBA Oasis 8x42 can be had for £570 in the UK min focus about 7ft

below your buget? The RSPB BG PC 8x32 are really good for £300. and the Opticron Imagic BGA and BGA classic range are both good for around £300-£400

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Good advice. The Nikons are quite superb. I'd push my budget if I could to go for Zeiss FL 8x32 - light, bright, sharp and wide.

scampo said:

Good advice. The Nikons are quite superb. I'd push my budget if I could to go for Zeiss FL 8x32 - light, bright, sharp and wide.

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the weight is good but not really worth £225 more I don't think.

pduxon said:

the weight is good but not really worth £225 more I don't think.

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Good advice again. I didn't realise that was the difference. Isn't the fov much wider, too? I haven't looked.

I was using the 10x25 Ultravids yestrday as I have a very bad neck at the moment and didn'twnat to make it worse. I have to say they took me a while to accustom myself to them but once I had, it was easy to put them straight to the eyes. The narrower fov does make a difference compared with the 8.5x Swaros, for sure, but, again, the eyes soon accustom themselves.

What was outstanding was the sheer brightness, the contrast and the overall view - quite superb.

scampo said:

Good advice again. I didn't realise that was the difference. Isn't the fov much wider, too? I haven't looked.

I was using the 10x25 Ultravids yestrday as I have a very bad neck at the moment and didn'twnat to make it worse. I have to say they took me a while to accustom myself to them but once I had, it was easy to put them straight to the eyes. The narrower fov does make a difference compared with the 8.5x Swaros, for sure, but, again, the eyes soon accustom themselves.

What was outstanding was the sheer brightness, the contrast and the overall view - quite superb.

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Nikons 136m @ 1000
Zeiss 140m @ 1000

Thanks all, these are just the sort of tips I was looking for.

Looking at what you are recommending and also some of the other threads, it seems that 8x32 is a really popular size these days. It sort of flies in the face of what I had drummed into me years ago though, i.e. that you want to have as big an exit pupil diameter as poss. Is it that with the modern optics an 8x32 is brighter than it would have been in the past and so this is becoming the standard? I'm living in Finland at the moment and it's pretty dim here at this time of year... Also, is 8x32 going to be bright enough for star gazing? (moons of Jupiter etc...)

I like the optics of the Nikon 8x32 LXL, but didn't include mention of it in my earlier post because it doesn't focus close enough for me to consider it a real butterflying binocular. I also don't like its build as much, don't like its "hang", don't like its weight (for a 32 mm bino) and don't like its focus speed. The focus ratio is so fast as to sacrifice achieving precise focus comfortably/intuitively; overshooting focus tires the eyes. The Zeiss has a very rapid but also very precise focus. My favorite combo birding/butterflying bino prior to the Zeiss 8x32 FL was the Bausch & Lomb 8x42 Elite (waterproof model prior to the current completely reengineered Elite), which focuses very close (a bit over 4 feet) but also has an uncomfortably fast focus ratio to which I've never fully adapted (Oh sure, one gets used to it to a great extent, but that's true of ill -fitting clothes too). Still, it is a lovely bino for birding and butterflying, so if you could find a used pair it would be a great choice and would certainly be much cheaper than the Zeiss.
--AP

I think the Opticron DBA is worth considering. The Norwegian Kikkert Spesialisten lists 8x42 binoculars in this order of quality:

Zeiss FL
Leica Ultravid
Swarovski EL
Opticron HR.WP
Leica BN
Leica Duovid
Opticron DBA
(They don't do Nikons)

For sharpness, contrast and brightness the FL gets 10+, 11, 10+ (out of 12). The Opticron DBA gets 10, 10, 9+. The DBA, at 679g, is the lightest of the bunch. If you can stretch to an FL (even an 8x32), that would be your optimal choice. If not, the DBA looks like your best bet. It doesn't come in an 8x32.

Michael.

8x42 often have better eye relief than 8x32 hence a better bet with specs. Also might help you see more at night if you're blessed with dark skies there.
The old Zeiss Victory 8x40 might also be worth a look if you can find old stocks somewhere eg. Ffordes in Scotland are advertising it at £549.

I had a bit of a hard time with 8x32 myself. I did not invest a lot in it as 8x is for me some part time use, not the preferred power. If I want a lot of light on a dim day, I can get more with my 10x42 Monarch. And many modern 8x42s, similar size, do not weigh that much. So there are fewer quality models in the 32 size than 42. But there are some, and some not that expensive. Best to check in some stores, try them on a dim day.

Alexis Powell said:

I like the optics of the Nikon 8x32 LXL, but didn't include mention of it in my earlier post because it doesn't focus close enough for me to consider it a real butterflying binocular. I also don't like its build as much, don't like its "hang", don't like its weight (for a 32 mm bino) and don't like its focus speed. The focus ratio is so fast as to sacrifice achieving precise focus comfortably/intuitively; overshooting focus tires the eyes. The Zeiss has a very rapid but also very precise focus. My favorite combo birding/butterflying bino prior to the Zeiss 8x32 FL was the Bausch & Lomb 8x42 Elite (waterproof model prior to the current completely reengineered Elite), which focuses very close (a bit over 4 feet) but also has an uncomfortably fast focus ratio to which I've never fully adapted (Oh sure, one gets used to it to a great extent, but that's true of ill -fitting clothes too). Still, it is a lovely bino for birding and butterflying, so if you could find a used pair it would be a great choice and would certainly be much cheaper than the Zeiss.
--AP

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Hi Alexis the Nikon's focus to approx 2m. I'd be tempted to say buy a pair of the pentax paipillo's as well and save a pile of money! On today's exchange rate about $300 on the Zeiss FL 8x32.

I always liked the focus of the Nikon's

each to his own.

Dammit, I'm now being tempted to nearly double my initial budget and have a look at the Zeiss 8x42FL....

Just one question - if I spend that much money on a pair of Leica or Zeiss, can I expect them to last half a lifetime without 1) going out of aligment/degrading in other ways 2) becoming seriously obsolete next to the latest model at a fraction of the price? Ok, that was two questions.

How robust are binoculars in this price range in practice? If I drop them will they be damaged, and if so, can they be repaired at reasonable cost?

neeb said:

Dammit, I'm now being tempted to nearly double my initial budget and have a look at the Zeiss 8x42FL....

Just one question - if I spend that much money on a pair of Leica or Zeiss, can I expect them to last half a lifetime without 1) going out of aligment/degrading in other ways 2) becoming seriously obsolete next to the latest model at a fraction of the price? Ok, that was two questions.

How robust are binoculars in this price range in practice? If I drop them will they be damaged, and if so, can they be repaired at reasonable cost?

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You won't drop them! Yes they can be damaged, I'm sure but they are well made and should last a lifetime. The warranties are all long and the manufacturer's service all seems excellent. If you damage them, I dare say it will be expensive to repair them - that's the way of these things.

The models are all new designs and offer excellent views that are bright, sharp and wide without colour fringing. It's difficult to imagine what else a binocualr can do, except have an even wider field of view or be lighter in weight. There's so little between the Nikon, Zeiss, Swaro and Leica that you'll need to try before you buy. If you wear spcs, one issue with the 32mm bins is their eye relief - it is smaller than the full size models and this means that unless you have a rimless type od spectacles that are close to your eyes, you'll struggle to see the full field of view. This is on reason I stayed with full size bins.

If you have the funds and are willing to part with the money then, yes, all of the most expensive roof prism glasses from Leica, Swarovski, Zeiss and Nikon should more than suit the needs you illustrated. Unlike the popular suggestions thus far I would stick with the 40-42 mm glass if you are considering stargazing with them as well. If you are looking for a good compromise between a birdwatching bin, butterflywatching bin and a stargazing bin then I think either an 8x42 or 7x42 would be ideal.

With price as no object I would then suggest, in no particular order, the...

Leica Ultravid
Nikon Premier LXL
Swarovski EL
Zeiss FL

That was fairly easy since they are the most cutting edge designs from the most reputable companies. The Leica Trinovid and Swarovski SLC might also be worthy suggestions but their close focus distances aren't quite as good as their more expensive counterparts. On the flip side, if you want to keep the cost at or under $1000 without sacrificing much in terms of overall performance then may I suggest one of the following....

Bushnell Elite
Meopta Meostar
Zeiss Conquest ABK

Each of these has their drawbacks compared to the $1000+ models in terms of either field of view, edge distortion, apparent sharpness, etc... but only you can decide exactly what you find acceptable and what you do not.

Hope this proves helpful.

I'm a huge fan of full sized binos (both for their larger exit pupil which allows an easier view, and for their weight which allows for a steadier image) and prefer to use them for birding whenever size and weight are not a critical factor in packing or juggling them with other equipment in the field. So I use full sized binos most days, especially in the winter when there are no insects to be seen! I recommended an 8x32 because I'm not satisfied with the performance of full-sized models for insect watching. It seems everyone has forgotten your interest in watching insects, because many of the above recommendations leave out consideration of close-focus performance. If I'm taking my insect watching seriously, I don't use a bino that can't focus to at least 6 feet, preferably under that. It may seem a trivial difference to others, but I find a big functional difference between being able to focus to 5 feet as compared to 7 feet, and 9 feet is certainly unacceptable for critical viewing. So among full-sized binos I wouldn't ever consider, for example, using my Leica 8x42 Ultravid (8 feet 8 inch close focus) or even my Swarovski 8.5x42 (close focus 7 feet) for insect watching. Of course, I've used them to look at insects at times when I had nothing else along, but it is never a satisfying experience. Among current premium full sized binos, it is the Zeiss 8x42 FL that have the closest focus (about 6 feet), so they're worth a look (I haven't tried them in the field because I already have the 8x32). When it comes to hand-held binocular star and planet/moon gazing, I can't imagine that there is any practical difference between an 8x32 and an 8x42. If you get something that doesn't focus under 6 feet and you are serious about insects, do follow Pduxon's suggestion to get the cheap ($120) but unmatched Pentax 6.5x21 Papilio for insect watching too.
--AP

Alexis Powell said:

It seems everyone has forgotten your interest in watching insects, because many of the above recommendations leave out consideration of close-focus performance.
--AP

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Alexis, that's why I recommended the Opticron 8x42 DBA, with its close-focus of 2.1m (just under 7 feet). But either neeb is going to have to spend more and get the FL (best course if he possibly can), which seems to be the only one to meet all his criteria, or he's going to have to compromise. The DBA's compromise would be in its 7° (122m) FOV.

Michael.

Thanks both.

Yes, the close focus is really important, so if I do get a really top-end 8x42 I'll go for the Zeiss if I'm happy with the way it feels. I think for astronomy the exit pupil, i.e. light gathering, is really important though, so there might be a significant difference between 8x32 and 8x42.