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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Troubador's Mini Review: Black vs Grey SF (1 Viewer)

Reference Post #20.

When comparing the two binoculars with the SP prisms, it looks like Zeiss reversed the SP prisms on the SF. Also the ocular lens on the SF looks to be very thick with more elements in it when compared to the ocular lenses showing in the other two binoculars pictured in Post #20.

Bob
 
ceasar said:
Reference Post #20.

When comparing the two binoculars with the SP prisms, it looks like Zeiss reversed the SP prisms on the SF. Also the ocular lens on the SF looks to be very thick with more elements in it when compared to the ocular lenses showing in the other two binoculars pictured in Post #20.

Bob
Click to expand...

Yes Bob, those top '3' thick lenses each look like doublets in my PC viewer.

Lee
 
I have the latest zeiss SF in grey in ise for 1 1/2 year now. very satisfied with the bin!
No problems with focusdrive after this period in use
I could compare mine with the black version and I could not see any difference on the optics side and colour cast
 
Troubador said:
Hi GiGi

Take a look at the pics and where the main weight of glass is and you can see why the SF feels light in the hand. The SF is on the right in the pic showing two bins and on its left is Swaro's EL SV. The bin on its own is HT with its long AK prisms.

Lee
Click to expand...

Lee,

Is there a lens missing in the SF? For some reason I thought there was a negative lens positioned just below the prism. Could be wrong.

David
 
typo said:
Lee,

Is there a lens missing in the SF? For some reason I thought there was a negative lens positioned just below the prism. Could be wrong.

David
Click to expand...

I think you are mistaken this time David. See the schematic below:

Lee
 

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Troubador said:
I think you are mistaken this time David. See the schematic below:

Lee
Click to expand...

Cheers Lee,

When Herr D described the flettening configuration he mentioned a lens adjacent to the prism before the focal plane. I think a Smyth (or Barlow) in front of the prism migh be the more conventional approach, that doublet looks intriguing. Wish I understood more about this stuff.

David
 
typo said:
Cheers Lee,

When Herr D described the flettening configuration he mentioned a lens adjacent to the prism before the focal plane. I think a Smyth (or Barlow) in front of the prism migh be the more conventional approach, that doublet looks intriguing. Wish I understood more about this stuff.

David
Click to expand...

The optical train you see there was the result of several consecutive nights' sleeping in the office by Konrad (Konnie) Seil, optical engineer, and Gerold Dobler, development team leader, working steadily through variations and getting closer and closer to the optical performance and weight distribution that was required. In the end they got to a combination that worked and then Konnie refined the details into the system we have today. Unfortunately Herr Seil died before SF was launched but Herr Dobler is very clear about the debt that SF owes to him.

Here is a link to a source for one of Herr Seil's papers: http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=968785

Lee
 
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typo said:
Cheers Lee,

When Herr D described the flettening configuration he mentioned a lens adjacent to the prism before the focal plane. I think a Smyth (or Barlow) in front of the prism migh be the more conventional approach, that doublet looks intriguing. Wish I understood more about this stuff.

David
Click to expand...

David,

Look at the cutaway attached to post #20. It shows the elements and spacing accurately.
The negative element behind the prism and in front of the eyepiece field stop (which is positioned at the focal plane of the objective) is the Smyrh/Barlow element.

Henry
 
Thanks Henry,

Yes, it's obvious when you look in the right place. A misunderstanding. Curious it's illustrated as a convex/concave design in the schematic in #25.

David
 
As seen in the photos, the optical lenses and weight up front, and that is
what makes the balance and handling of the SF so very good. This was all explained when they were introduced.

This balance, the optics, and the smooth smart focus all make this a
very nice binocular.

Jerry
 
I'm very happy with my ole' Grey 10x42's, and never really been a fan of Johnny Cash anyway :)

Great review Lee
 
I enjoyed your review and explaining the differences between the gray and black SFs. Sounds like very little. One of the reasons I didn't get a gray SF 10X42 is I could just see myself picking up the 10X and heading out when I REALLY wanted the 8X(which I all ready have) and vice versa.
 
chill6x6 said:
I enjoyed your review and explaining the differences between the gray and black SFs. Sounds like very little. One of the reasons I didn't get a gray SF 10X42 is I could just see myself picking up the 10X and heading out when I REALLY wanted the 8X(which I all ready have) and vice versa.
Click to expand...

Chuck you are right, the changes are incremental rather than substantial but they are good changes nevertheless.

Lee
 
Troubador said:
I have been using a black SF 8x42 recently and thought I would report a few impressions based on my experience of the older grey model. .... I have heard a few complaints that some grey units had loose armour but I also heard that a few folks who thought their armour was loose had been misled by the slightly squashy feel to the armour resulting from the ridges and grooves. Whatever was going on there, the armour on this unit feels well glued-down.
Click to expand...

We had a few gray ones in the store that had bubbles in the armor. Zeiss replaced those for us.

Troubador said:
The other change that Zeiss have reported is an improvement to the focusing mechanism. ... there is no change in the gearing and it’s a bit faster than an HT or Swaro EL .
Click to expand...

I'd say a lot faster than the EL, especially in close. I'd say that close-in focusing speed is the major flaw in the EL for those looking at butterflies and dragonflies.
 
Steve O4B said:
We had a few gray ones in the store that had bubbles in the armor. Zeiss replaced those for us.



I'd say a lot faster than the EL, especially in close. I'd say that close-in focusing speed is the major flaw in the EL for those looking at butterflies and dragonflies.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Steve.
For sure I would say that both HT and EL are too slow for butts and dragons especially in wetlands where you could also get a vast array of birds appearing in the distance as well as dragons close by. SF is definitely better at this but as a dedicated tool for this job I go for Conquest HD 8x32 which is twice as fast as SF.

Lee
 
Hi Lee

Is the Gray mode SF you have early production, the 10X42 I compared to my 10X50 SV in December 2015 didn't persuade me to make a change. The pair I have now, (made in October 2016), have, IMO, the best overall view I've seen in a binocular so far. Do the very last iteration of the Gray SF have tweaks that have carried through to the Black version ? Does Zeiss even admit to an actual tweaking of the optics at any point in the production timeline ?
 
SuperDuty said:
Does Zeiss even admit to an actual tweaking of the optics at any point in the production timeline ?
Click to expand...

Zeiss (just like Leica) always tweaked the optics of their binoculars in the past. And they only announced any changes if they were really major changes, like when Zeiss introduced the T* coating or, later, phase coatings. Many of these tweaks resulted in small, only just visible changes (ususally in the colour balance and contrast). I know of one major tweak (not Zeiss this time) where the manufacturer minimized CA in the 1990s, after the first charges had excessive CA the later ones didn't. This was also not announced.

Hermann
 
Hi Herman

I have more of a problem with CA than most people, and the first SF was better than my SVs in CA control by a noticeable amount. The SF I own now is better than the first, achieving a level of CA control that was at least as good as the example of the 10X42 FL I tried, maybe somewhat better. I realize CA is subjective subject for many, for me it's an image spoiling reality.

Robert
 
SuperDuty said:
Hi Lee

Is the Gray mode SF you have early production, the 10X42 I compared to my 10X50 SV in December 2015 didn't persuade me to make a change. The pair I have now, (made in October 2016), have, IMO, the best overall view I've seen in a binocular so far. Do the very last iteration of the Gray SF have tweaks that have carried through to the Black version ? Does Zeiss even admit to an actual tweaking of the optics at any point in the production timeline ?
Click to expand...

Hi Robert
Yes the grey 10x is a 2015 model. I have been told that the very last grey units had the focus improvements but I have never heard that the optics / coatings were tuned. However I do know that at least part of Nicholas Benoit's job at Zeiss is continuous improvement of the T* family of coatings so it would not be a big surprise if coatings are upgraded from time to time.

Lee
 
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