65mm vs 85mm (1 Viewer)

65mm vs 85mm Spotting Scope Advice

Hey Everyone,

Looking to get some insight as to differences between the smaller and larger objective lenses on spotting scopes. About to buy my first. Specifically, I'm considering the Leica Televid APO, Zeiss Diascope, and Swarovski ATS.

I know the larger objective lets in more light, and this can deliver a much better image in low light at dusk or dawn. I'm wondering if there are other conditions where the performance is different? In daylight, is the image quality any better or worse? Cloudy conditions?

I am leaning towards saving some good coin by going with a smaller scope, but I'd like to have a full inventory of the differences between the two. Appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Conor

PS - If anyone has any opinions on the Televid vs Diascope vs ATS, I'd love to hear them! I value easy eye placement highly.

Hi Conor,

I've had both the Zeiss Diascope 85mm and the Swaro ATS 80 and had the opportunity to use my friend's Leica Televid 82 over the last 8-10months. Basically the only optic store in my town was selling stock that had sat around for about a year so offered some good discounts on all three scopes. I bought the Diascope and Swaro and he bought the Leica a couple of days later.

My perception on the quality of the image aside, the other key driver that influenced my choice was also my own experience and forum feedback on warranty support from all three brands in Australia.

From that perspective, Swaro won hands down. All my other optics (binoculars) are Swarovski and I have only great things to say about them in the dealings i've had so i was naturally drawn to the ATS 80.

Now to the image....

The Zeiss appealed because of the "larger" diameter and the 20-75x zoom. Optically is almost no noticeable loss in brightness on the image at full zoom. In terms of the view, FOV isn't as wide throughout the range as on the Swaro (25-50x eyepiece) and the Leica (25-50x eyepiece) and it narrowed considerably through the mid range.

Image on the Zeiss was extremely sharp in the middle but soften considerably at the edges in the last 10-15% of the field. This scope also had the most CA (relatively speaking) at edge of field. Finally, eye placement was the easiest on this scope - no blacking out or kidney beaning and at 20x with an 85mm objective, exit pupil was the most generous.

I had no issues with the unique dual speed focuser and as i tend to view on-axis, the superb view in the centre more than made up for the soft edges.

Onto the Swaro - I'll state upfront that I found the Swaro's image to be the best. It has a big FOV with a very bright, sharp image. Field was flat from edge to edge and CA was hardly noticeable. I found colours to be a bit more natural compared to the Zeiss (the Zeiss to me had a slightly bluish tinge comparatively - it was only apparent when using both scopes side by side)

Obviously zoom range wasn't as wide but the scope itself was significantly lighter and more elegant. I found eye placement on the Swaro to be the trickiest. I still do - i have some days where I can observe for several hrs with no issues and other days where the scope just frustrates me and i'll constantly be twisting the eye cup to try and get better eye positioning. When I bought it, i thought I could "train" myself on eye placement - that challenge continues.

With respect to the Leica, this brand has always been a bit of an unknown to me - i have never used or experienced Leica products and I have no idea about their warranty. I've just picked up on a number of local forums that they are difficult to deal with in Australia so this had already made me cautious. I found the view through the Leica very similar to the Swaro - it was a bright clean image with a wide FOV - possibly a little wider than the Swaro at 25x. I thought it lacked the contrast that the Swaro had but again only found this when using both scopes side by side and swapping frequently. Eye placement was easy.

Already being hesitant based on customer service feedback, the clincher for me to disregard this scope was the tactile feel of the focus wheel (on the Leica they are half embedded into the scope body). When I turned the wheels (both the fast and slow wheels) they felt like the motion was dampened with a slight "springback" i.e. I would finish focusing the wheel and as I eased off and rested my finger, i felt it "roll" back the other way by 1-2mm.. Its an odd one to describe - it just didnt have the crispness and precision I had felt in both the helical focuser of the Swaro or the focuser on the Zeiss.

so based on this, I picked up the Swaro and the Zeiss.

My mate looked through the Leica and agreed with my opinion of the focus wheel but equally, enjoyed the view. He managed to get a slightly higher discount by bargaining with store and bringing up the focuser (which the store assured him was working as designed) and subsequently ended up buying the scope.

Since then I regularly had the opportunity to look through all three (as has he) and we're both comfortable with our choices. He still has and enjoys the Leica. I love my Swaro but the eyepiece can be a pain (placement wise - eye relief is great).

More recently the Zeiss didnt get used as often because it was a much bigger/heavier scope and I stopped taking two scopes out, particularly when bushwalking. So I recently sold the Diascope body and intended to keep the eyepiece for use in my 11" telescope, however I've now sold that telescope as well so the eyepiece is also on the market.

Regarding the Swaro, I'm now looking for a good condition 30x SW eyepiece to compliment the zoom so that should keep me happy with respect to eye placement etc.

I've thought about looking at Kowa but again, the customer service in Australia is an unknown to me and I'm cautious about the eyepiece which still has reported issues with the internal anodising flaking off and settling on the internal lenses..

I do want a second scope for my wife so i'm considering the Swaro ATS 65 now - it should go with the 30x eyepiece perfectly and make a great travel scope.

cheers
Jeelan

If you want to save some coin I would add the Kowa TSN-88 and TSN-77 scopes to your list. They are certainly the best deals going in high end scopes now. A good TSN-88 will be optically superior to anything on your list and costs less than the 65mm Leica and not much more than the 65mm Swaro. BTW, the Diascopes have been discontinued, apparently with no replacement coming in the near future.

I should add that the Swarovskis and Kowas have a better track record for quality control than Zeiss or Leica, but any single unit of any of these scopes has more than a tiny chance of being an outright lemon and an even better chance of having enough optical defects to prevent it from reaching its design potential. Make sure there is a good return policy.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the input - very helpful. I'll check out the Kowa scopes as well. I didn't realize they were any less expensive than the others.

If anyone has any thoughts on the general advantages to a larger objective lens I would love to hear them. I am curious about when and where I can expect superior performance with a larger scope (if not all the time).

I think you experience the advantage with a bigger objective at higher mags. If you tend to use a fixed 30x eyepiece most of the time, for instance, then there won't be that much difference between good 65 and 80mm scopes, in my opinion. I've got a Kowa 663 and 823m, and though I do prefer the view through the 823, if I'm going on a longish walk I'll take the 663 unless I know I'm going to be peering at something requiring me to use my 50x fixed eyepiece. At 30x they're both excellent, in all honesty, and hard to differentiate in reasonable light. So I would consider the practicalities when you make your choice: if you're going to be walking a lot (or birding lots at dusk) then a smaller scope is probably preferable (you don't need such a big tripod or head either). But if you're rocking up and scoping from near your car etc. then go as big as you can. I guess the Swarovski ATX is tempting here; you could buy the 65mm objective, and then get one of the larger ones at a later date if you feel you're missing out...

Consider Meopta Meostar S2 HD 82. Choice of two zooms, 30-60 or 25-75. I have the former. I've owned the Swaro ATS80HD with 25-50x, but missed the extra reach. I've also owned Zeiss Victory Diascope (older silver model) with the the Baader-Hyperion astro zoom. I used to own a Swaro ATS65HD also with 20-60x.
I really liked the Zeiss, but the Meopta is streets ahead in terms of optics. The Meopta is far cheaper than any of the rest, but matches them all in build quality, focusser etc. Also has lifetime transferable warranty, I think.
65mm scope is fine for most situations, advantage being ease of carrying. 80mm are obviously brighter in difficult conditions like seawatching in bad weather, and clearer/brighter at higher mag. On my old 65mm Swaro scope, the top end of the zoom, over 50x, was pretty unusable because of light-loss.
Caveat: all the above is user-observation only. I'm no expert. I'd still recommend a look at the Meopta, though.

I think Grando pretty much nailed it--get the ATX. I have owned many different scopes over the years trying to find the perfect combination, but since getting ATX with both 65 and 85 tubes I am content.