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Dreadful customer service (1 Viewer)

jgraider said:
Uh, "wrong" is an understatement......ignorant, and/or idiotic statement would be more applicable.

I'm involved with guide and outfitter programs with Leupold, Swarovski, Zeiss, and Meopta. No Leica for a reason........I visited with Leica a couple of years ago and decided their business policies and philosophies and my own were miles apart. After visiting with Leica USA at this past January's DSC show in Dallas, I was assured that, in my mind, I once again made the correct choice. Leica Sport Optics USA, at least in the hunting segment, are idiots.
Click to expand...

Did you decide that you didn't want anything to do with Leica, or did Leica decide they didn't want to have anything to do with you? Maybe they listened to what you do for a living and decided they didn't like your business model.
 
CloseFocus said:
Did you decide that you didn't want anything to do with Leica, or did Leica decide they didn't want to have anything to do with you? Maybe they listened to what you do for a living and decided they didn't like your business model.
Click to expand...

Close:

It looks like you need a lesson in Leica sports optics. JG was correct in
his previous post about what Leica has in binoculars to compare with
the Swarovski EL. They do not have anything to compare with the EL Swarovision (SV).

Leica has long been a seller in the hunting market, as they have been
well known for rangefinders, and the new Geovid, Perger porro prism
binocular has been their latest effort in the entire binocular line.

Leica also builds and sells riflescopes, and have recently been building
their own models, and have been trying to build a new presence.

Leica does have a hunting side to their sports optics. It seems you may
not have known that.

Jerry
 
I like good optics.
I also like good customer service.
Warranties are tricky, a lot of small print.
If I get good treatment from a company I'm likely to continue using that company.
To me its not a hard decision.
Make an excellent product and treat the customer right.
Boom, you got my business.
At the present that happens to be Swarovski.

Bryce...
 
Why do so many people have good things to say about Swarovskis warranty? Or rather, why do so many people HAVE experience with Swarovskis warranty? I don't think its fair to say how great their warranty is without first telling us the problem that needed fixing, and judging by the number of praises for Swarovskis warranty, there were a lot of problems that needed to be fixed.
 
CloseFocus said:
Did you decide that you didn't want anything to do with Leica, or did Leica decide they didn't want to have anything to do with you? Maybe they listened to what you do for a living and decided they didn't like your business model.
Click to expand...

You have no clue what I do for a living. Guiding hunters is on the side stuff strictly for fun. Since you asked, I wanted no part of Leica. That's too bad, because one of my favorite all time bins was a 10x42 BN.

Leica and Swarovski cannot even be mentioned in the same sentence when it comes to customer service, warranties, and overall taking care of the customer. For example, I told you I'd had two guys ruin EL's. One guy lost his balance and bashed his binocular on the rocks, going down a cliff. It ruined the focus mechanism and knocked one barrel out of collimation. He called Swaro, sent them back with a letter once again explaining what happened, and asked them to call him with an estimate of repairs. 4 weeks later he had a brand new pair in his hands, no charge. Amazing to say the least.
 
CloseFocus said:
Why do so many people have good things to say about Swarovskis warranty? Or rather, why do so many people HAVE experience with Swarovskis warranty? I don't think its fair to say how great their warranty is without first telling us the problem that needed fixing, and judging by the number of praises for Swarovskis warranty, there were a lot of problems that needed to be fixed.
Click to expand...


Another example may answer your question. My neighbor bought an older pair of 10x42 SLC WB's from ebay that functioned and performed perfectly. He called Swaro and gave them the serial #, and they confirmed they were not black market glass, and told him if he bought them to send them in and they would go completely through them and fix them like new. Not only did they do that, they also put new armoring on them, upgraded the lens coating to the latest and greatest at that time, and basically returned them to him as a new, refurbished binocular.....no charge, zero. Try that with a preowned Leica and see what happens.
 
jgraider said:
You have no clue what I do for a living. Guiding hunters is on the side stuff strictly for fun. Since you asked, I wanted no part of Leica. That's too bad, because one of my favorite all time bins was a 10x42 BN.

Leica and Swarovski cannot even be mentioned in the same sentence when it comes to customer service, warranties, and overall taking care of the customer. For example, I told you I'd had two guys ruin EL's. One guy lost his balance and bashed his binocular on the rocks, going down a cliff. It ruined the focus mechanism and knocked one barrel out of collimation. He called Swaro, sent them back with a letter once again explaining what happened, and asked them to call him with an estimate of repairs. 4 weeks later he had a brand new pair in his hands, no charge. Amazing to say the least.
Click to expand...

So based on your experience with two guys you have decided that Leica is a total fraud as a company? I have had the pleasure of owning eight Leica binoculars and two spotting scopes. Based on that experience, I would disagree with that assessment.
 
jgraider said:
Another example may answer your question. My neighbor bought an older pair of 10x42 SLC WB's from ebay that functioned and performed perfectly. He called Swaro and gave them the serial #, and they confirmed they were not black market glass, and told him if he bought them to send them in and they would go completely through them and fix them like new. Not only did they do that, they also put new armoring on them, upgraded the lens coating to the latest and greatest at that time, and basically returned them to him as a new, refurbished binocular.....no charge, zero. Try that with a preowned Leica and see what happens.
Click to expand...

I'm just curious, do you have any actual experience dealing with Leicas repair department?
 
Here's the deal CloseFocus. People can use and buy whatever they want. I could care less. You're in love with Leica and that super duper by me. I'm not, based on talking directly to them, their reps at trade shows, and the fact that there are way too many people screwed over by Leica....a simple google search will give you days of reading material. Since there are several companies that offer equal to, or superior products, often times at much less money (Meopta) with superior service and company policies, I personally have zero desire to deal with them.
 
CloseFocus said:
Why do so many people have good things to say about Swarovskis warranty? Or rather, why do so many people HAVE experience with Swarovskis warranty? I don't think its fair to say how great their warranty is without first telling us the problem that needed fixing, and judging by the number of praises for Swarovskis warranty, there were a lot of problems that needed to be fixed.
Click to expand...

I've wondered the same thing - seems like a lot of people need the service, and then are pleased with the service they receive. Great, I guess, but I would prefer my warranty department to be a couple of old guys covered in cob-webs, due to lack of use.....

They are just binoculars after all - there really shouldn't be a need for warranty service ever, if they are built right the 1st time. 40 - 50 years isn't that much to ask for something that is metal and glass.
 
jgraider said:
Here's the deal CloseFocus. People can use and buy whatever they want. I could care less. You're in love with Leica and that super duper by me. I'm not, based on talking directly to them, their reps at trade shows, and the fact that there are way too many people screwed over by Leica....a simple google search will give you days of reading material. Since there are several companies that offer equal to, or superior products, often times at much less money (Meopta) with superior service and company policies, I personally have zero desire to deal with them.
Click to expand...

You care enough to make post after post about what a terrible company Leica is, and now we find that your experience is based solely on other peoples stories. As someone who plans to spend a lot of money on another pair of Leicas someday, I prefer my information to be firsthand.
 
There's been some criticism above of sales people (the final ones, those at shops) for not representing "correctly" the relative merits of bin makes. This is not v. fair. Here we are in this forum, people who spend a h* of a lot of time with and on bins, going on and on with so much disagreement. They're just doing their duty. Personally, I use the info. in Bf. (sifted!) to bypass sales personnel at all stages and their work, i.e. ads, etc.
 
Last edited:
james holdsworth said:
... I would prefer my warranty department to be a couple of old guys covered in cob-webs, due to lack of use...
Click to expand...

Instantly reminded me of the Rolls-Royce story. Googled to give a link here and top of the list is <this>. Never read the page before, and some of the stories are new to me (including, strangely, the real original, re Kipling). But much struck by the one re the oil sheik. I now like to think Jgraider carries a Leica under the car seat!
 
jgraider said:
Another example may answer your question. My neighbor bought an older pair of 10x42 SLC WB's from ebay that functioned and performed perfectly. He called Swaro and gave them the serial #, and they confirmed they were not black market glass, and told him if he bought them to send them in and they would go completely through them and fix them like new. Not only did they do that, they also put new armoring on them, upgraded the lens coating to the latest and greatest at that time, and basically returned them to him as a new, refurbished binocular.....no charge, zero. Try that with a preowned Leica and see what happens.
Click to expand...

It was around $500 on my BN (with a discount).
 
While Leica has their faults, they're still my favorite optics company.

My reasoning is:

1. Well thought out design
2. Robustness
3. Compact size
4. Looks
5. Optical quality
6. Long lasting durability - I expect Leicas to last many years
7. Small German company nature
8. Innovative - many competitors copy Leica's ideas

Leica is far from perfect. In fact nearly every product of their has had to go to NJ for some minor adjustment (BTW I do not trust Leica NJ, wish we could send to Wetzlar). Overall the quality and durability are great and I do like their products.
 
pompadour said:
There's been some criticism above of sales people (the final ones, those at shops) for not representing "correctly" the relative merits of bin makes. This is not v. fair.
Click to expand...

A good salesman listens to the customers, tries to understand his wishes.

Pre-selects the range of goods to make it easier for the customer to only having to decide between what is potentially useful for him.

Explains the product.

Gives tips to enable the customer to judge the performance and find out by himself which is most suited for him.

Deals with the so-called "expert" the customer took along for help.

On occasion flaty refuses to sell something he thinks is rubbish all in all. (A good shop owner listens to his people and selects the range of goods accordingly).

A good salesman knows, when to voice his opinion and personal preferences to help making a decision, but always with regard to the customer: price, performance, etc.

A good salesman lets the customer decide, but would voice his opinion when the customer wants to make a unsuitable decision. (With binos, for example, when the customer wants to go hiking with the bino but decides upon a big, heavy 10x50). If he stills decides otherwise, thats fine but his decision. (A salesman also has to cover his a###).

A good salesman always has to bridge the gap between making a living by letting the shop prosper and fulfilling the customers wishes.

All for lousy money, working ungodly hours, always having to be friendly to a###holes, always taking the blame when something goes wrong.

The reward being happy customers who are thankfull for a competent consulting and truly believe that they spend their money wisely for goods worth the price and suitable for their endeavour. Customers who come back and recommend the shop respectivley the salesman. (I admit, I always felt good when a returning customer asked to be served by me and would rather wait than have someone else do it :))

After having been behind the counter for 25 years I say: never again.
 
Last edited:
oetzi said:
A good salesman listens to the customers, tries to understand his wishes.

Pre-selects the range of goods to make it easier for the customer to only having to decide between what is potentially useful for him.

Explains the product.

Gives tips to enable the customer to judge the performance and find out by himself which is most suited for him.

Deals with the so-called "expert" the customer took along for help.

On occasion flaty refuses to sell something he thinks is rubbish all in all. (A good shop owner listens to his people and selects the range of goods accordingly).

A good salesman knows, when to voice his opinion and personal preferences to help making a decision, but always with regard to the customer: price, performance, etc.

A good salesman lets the customer decide, but would voice his opinion when the customer wants to make a unsuitable decision. (With binos, for example, when the customer wants to go hiking with the bino but decides upon a big, heavy 10x50). If he stills decides otherwise, thats fine but his decision. (A salesman also has to cover his a###).

A good salesman always has to bridge the gap between making a living by letting the shop prosper and fulfilling the customers wishes.

All for lousy money, working ungodly hours, always having to be friendly to a###holes, always taking the blame when something goes wrong.

The reward being happy customers who are thankfull for a competent consulting and truly believe that they spend their money wisely for goods worth the price and suitable for their endeavour. Customers who come back and recommend the shop respectivley the salesman. (I admit, I always felt good when a returning customer asked to be served by me and would rather wait than have someone else do it :))

After having been behind the counter for 25 years I say: never again.
Click to expand...

But when you own a shop like that, it's different.
He started for himself because he could make a difference.
You don't do it for the money. The drive is how you described it and you put it right on the spot.
In a second life I would do it all over again!!

Jan
 
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