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Swaro's answer to the Victory SF? (1 Viewer)

St. Elmo

Well-known member
A few of us opined on what Zeiss would offer to follow the Victory FL (and the HT). As I recall, no one really nailed it (if you did, I apologize). It was, however, rather interesting reading.

Are there any thoughts on what Swarovski will offer to follow the current EL Swarovision?
 
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Swarovski will have to put wider FOVs on the equivalent Swarovisions without increasing their prices because the projected SF prices are the same as the Swarovisons are now. Or they could just lower the prices (and their profits) on the Swarovisions by 2 or 3 hundred bucks and do nothing.

That is a dirty trick Zeiss played on them.

Bob
 
I can't remember who, but at least one member if not more than one did predict that Zeiss would make its own version of the SV EL. After all, what else could Zeiss do with the EDG and SV EL nipping at its heels?

What I wished for back in January sounds like the SF:

"If someone made a bin with a 'tangential and sagittal surface normalizer' that would produce a reasonably sharp image even at 80%, and also had an extra wide FOV (70* AFOV) w/out 'side effects' such as RB, that would be the ideal bin for me. But that seems to be a rather tall order since I'm not aware of any bin that has that combination of characteristics."

Zeiss SF?

Given that the AFOV of the 8x42 SF is 67.7* and 68.5* for the 10x42 SF, and no reported RB so far, my wish might have come true, or as close as it gets, except I left out the part where the bin should be priced $1000 or less.

Swarovski already lowered the price on its SLCs, which were priced too close to the SV ELs. I don't think they are going to limbo any lower on the Swarovisions. Heck, they were the ones who broke the $2,400 price barrier to begin with, and then they hiked the price twice over the past few years since the SV EL debuted and took the SV EL's prices to where no optics company has boldly gone before - into the exosphere. If they lowered their price in response to the SF, the SV ELs would look like Children of a Lesser God.

Besides, it's clear that SV EL fans don't give a doggone about the price, they will pay whatever Swaro tells them to pay and relish the whip marks that "hurt so good."

In any case, it's too early in the game to speculate about how the SF will fare against the SV EL except to say that Swaro and Nikon got there first, so most users will likely be holding on to what they've got.

Only those who simply must have the "latest and greatest" and those who wanted to buy an SV EL but couldn't use it because of the RB will be applying for high atmosphere SF testing. A third category might be FL owners who didn't upgrade to the HT and who would like a bigger sweet spot and/or an open bridge design.

So while there are buyers for the SF, I think it's going to be a tougher sell for Zeiss than it was for Swaro's SV EL.

The EDG was first out of the gate, but its stumble with the faulty and litigious EDG I, and it's spotty reputation for customer service, repairs and short warranty period in Europe will have would be Euro buyers with deep pockets who didn't buy an SV EL taking a serious look at the SF.

We first need to see a shoot out between the SV EL and Zeiss SF to find out which one is more "sponge worthy." If the SF doesn't produce RB, and there are no slip-ups like the 54 HTs, then it will provide an alternative to those who wanted to buy an SV EL, but couldn't tolerate the side effects from the mustache distortion, and for those who prefer the blue shield over the Peregrine falcon.

My blood doesn't run blue, so my interest is purely academic.

Brock
 
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A few of us opined on what Zeiss would offer to follow the Victory FL (and the HT). As I recall, no one really nailed it (if you did, I apologize). It was, however, rather interesting reading.

Are there any thoughts on what Swarovski will offer to follow the current EL Swarovision?

Based on past history, one would think that Swarovski has itself positioned for the next decade, at least. I'm fortunate to have bought an 8x SLC-HD before it was degraded into the current SLC range, but even the 8x30 CL has been morphed into product consistency with the new pocket models. Smart marketing.

Ed
 
Based on past history, one would think that Swarovski has itself positioned for the next decade, at least. I'm fortunate to have bought an 8x SLC-HD before it was degraded into the current SLC range, but even the 8x30 CL has been morphed into product consistency with the new pocket models. Smart marketing.

Ed

Ed:

I agree with your thoughts, Swarovski has updated the entire line
since 2010. Several products just within the past year. So I feel
they are well positioned and have no need for anything needing
any updating that I can think of.

As far as the Victory SF, that is to be determined, and I don't feel
that model will affect the Swarovision sales to any degree.

Jerry
 
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I find the Swarovision the most overrated, over-hyped binocular in a generation. I've found blurry spots throughout the FOV on a variety of samples, and did I mention the nauseating rolling ball effect?

If they could learn to make a binocular as robust as Leica, with the quality of the current SLC optics they'd be on to something...
 
I find the Swarovision the most overrated, over-hyped binocular in a generation. I've found blurry spots throughout the FOV on a variety of samples, and did I mention the nauseating rolling ball effect?

If they could learn to make a binocular as robust as Leica, with the quality of the current SLC optics they'd be on to something...

No comment about the SV models, since I'm allergic to field flatteners. However, what's the basis for saying that the SLC is not as "robust" as Leica? They seem to take a lot of abuse and the company is notorious for standing behind these products.

Ed
 
I find the Swarovision the most overrated, over-hyped binocular in a generation. I've found blurry spots throughout the FOV on a variety of samples, and did I mention the nauseating rolling ball effect?

If they could learn to make a binocular as robust as Leica, with the quality of the current SLC optics they'd be on to something...

The Swarovision binoculars are a very well designed binocular, and
it seems you must not be seeing clearly. You may have some vision
issues. :eek!:

It seems you should consult an optometrist, and get your eyes checked.

Jerry
 
I find the Swarovision the most overrated, over-hyped binocular in a generation....

I tend to agree!!! At $1300 the Swaro EL (wb) was a pricey binocular but an amazing binocular at a fair and reasonable price; an all around good buy. At $2300 the Swaro EL (sv) just isn't.

Swaro really delivered in the early years of the EL. Unfortunately, I don't feel the same with today's EL offerings at their current prices.

CG
 
I tend to agree!!! At $1300 the Swaro EL (wb) was a pricey binocular but an amazing binocular at a fair and reasonable price; an all around good buy. At $2300 the Swaro EL (sv) just isn't.

Swaro really delivered in the early years of the EL. Unfortunately, I don't feel the same with today's EL offerings at their current prices.

CG

I've spent several years with both the EL and the EL SV, and your opinion is questionable.
Your prices are not in relation to what they sold for.
The original EL sold for more than that.
Not sure how it applies at all in this discussion.

The Swarovski EL binoculars are all very good, and the newer ones are better, and
how you determine the value is up to the purchaser.
This is much the same with any optic a mfr. updates.

CG, tell us more about your experience with the EL's ? ;)

Jerry
 
I tend to agree!!! At $1300 the Swaro EL (wb) was a pricey binocular but an amazing binocular at a fair and reasonable price; an all around good buy. At $2300 the Swaro EL (sv) just isn't.

Swaro really delivered in the early years of the EL. Unfortunately, I don't feel the same with today's EL offerings at their current prices.

CG

The El was introduced in 1999. Adjusted for inflation, a $1,300 price tag (if it is accurate) would be equivalent to $1,945 today. One way to look at it is that all the advanced technology incorporated into today's $2,300 SV really costs only $355 in current dollars. That's quite a bargain.

Similarly, in 1993 the 10x42 SLC marketed for about $950, which would be equivalent to $1,639 dollars today. The latest model sells for about $1,850, which is a real difference of only $211.

Ed
 
Swaro's reaction will be a calm smile. If the SF really "cures rolling ball" then in an in store test, it will be, to most purchasers, demonstrably "inferior" to SV: straight edges, viewed near the edge of the field, will appear to curve. SF might beat it on scattered light handling, smooth focus, and ergonomics, but those are subtleties that take experienced field use to judge.

SV is a brilliant design, and wonderfully well made, don't get me wrong. It is fun to borrow my wife's 8.5x42 now and then. The focus wheel, never bad, has smoothed out nicely with use, the flat sharp field helps nail a bird that's hauling it to the nearest bush, and the contrast, sharpness and color presentation are all that need be.

But I suspect the SV's alpha-among-alphas selling power is based on image qualities that are obvious in an indoor test, namely flat field, minimal edge astigmatism, and near zero distortion. With a tie on one and two Zeiss is closing in, but SV still will get the sell. Plus, the green is just right.

Ron
 
They have no pressing need to do anything until the SF has been weighed and measured, and hopefully not found wanting as the 54mm HT`s have.

Until then the vast majority of buyers (not the optic obsessive forum members here) will on trying the two side by side declare the Sv the sharper forgetting to factor in that (utterly brilliant marketing idea) 0.5x extra mag detail.
 
They have no pressing need to do anything until the SF has been weighed and measured, and hopefully not found wanting as the 54mm HT`s have.

Until then the vast majority of buyers (not the optic obsessive forum members here) will on trying the two side by side declare the Sv the sharper forgetting to factor in that (utterly brilliant marketing idea) 0.5x extra mag detail.

Time will tell but there is already quite a list I'd judge sharper than the ELSV 8.5x42.

David
 
While standing near an ice field with SV's dangling from our necks and fresh hot drinks in hand my wife spots a high-flying bird. Both of us one-handed our SV's, focused and casually watched as a lovely adult Golden Eagle soared by. For a brief moment, I thought of BF and chuckled.
 
Reminds me of an old Heineken advert on tv............"Only Swarovski can do this, it shows you the Birds other binoculars cannot reach". to be read with a poor Dutch accent.
 
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While standing near an ice field with SV's dangling from our necks and fresh hot drinks in hand my wife spots a high-flying bird. Both of us one-handed our SV's, focused and casually watched as a lovely adult Golden Eagle soared by. For a brief moment, I thought of BF and chuckled.

......but you DID think of it.....;)
 
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