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Shame on Swarovski: no 7x roof! (1 Viewer)

My 7x42 SLC B is a "chunk." It is longer and noticeably heavier than my Leica 7x42 Trinovid BN which is the original "brick!" Their ER is more than adequate for me. They will last for many years with reasonable care. My older son who wears glasses will get the SLC and my younger one the Trinovid.

Bob
 
plc22 said:
More than that, they MAKE the market (not only Swarovski)

I believe that most people buy what the manufacturers decide to sell them and not the opposite.They are smart enough to make people believe that they buy what they want and all the marketing is geared towards this goal: "you want this so we've made it for you" when it's actually: "we've decided to build this because it costs us less and now you have to buy it".

I guess 7x42 requires a slightly different design while 8x42 and 10x42 share the same one. Anyway there ought to be some cost explanation otherwise we would see 7x42 binoculars all over the place.

Now regarding the venerable 7x42 Habicht porro, I'm sorry but it has an ER from the 70's!
The "modern"Leica only has a not so inspiring, low 17mm ER (spec sheet data... could actually be even less)

So to me it is closer to:

"Swarovski makes the market and only produces models that will increase their turnover"

So if you like porros and/or 7x power you can just go and...

Personnally I own an 8x32 EL SV but I would have prefered a 7x32 EL SV by far!
Click to expand...

So why would an 8X42 cost less than a 7X42?

You dont make the market in anything unless you bring something radical to the table. 7X is a niche birding glass, birders probably dont make the lions share of Swaros customers
 
It's as simple as that: 7x binoculars don't sell. When you talk to people from the big manufacturers, it's always the same story: Most binoculars sold on the birding (and nature observation) market are 8x42 and 10x42, with 8x30/32 in third place, followed by 10x50 (which also sells to some extent on the astronomy markets). And since it doesn't make sense to design and produce binoculars that will not recover the cost of designing and making them, like a 7x42 or a 7x35 or what have you, they don't make them.

No amount of whining will change that.

The few remaining 7x42s on the market don't disprove this point: The Leica Ultravid 7x42 is essentially the original Trinovid 7x42 BA first made in the early 1990s, so they didn't have to do anything apart from upgrading the coatings and glass types from time to time, the Habicht 7x42 goes back to the original Habicht 7x42 from 1949 (and Swarovski apparently still sells quite a few of those to the military). The Nikon EDG is made by a company that doesn't really appear to be bothered by what the market wants, as witnessed by their strange EDG scopes, so they just made an EDG 7x42 no matter what the market wants.

Let me guess: If and when Leica stars making a new series of binoculars for the birding market, it will be an 8x42 and a 10x42, followed an 8x32 and a 10x50. Anything else wouldn't make economic sense.

Hermann
 
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People sure do get lathered up about this stuff.

I don't care about much but the images ... everything else is just a means to that end.
 
perterra said:
7X is a niche birding glass, birders probably dont make the lions share of Swaros customers
Click to expand...
.

You don't know how wrong you are by stating that 7x is a niche birding glass,
but the other part of your statement is actually correct.

I have myself little interest in birding and am therefore part of the legion of "others" who, I'm sorry to say, by far outnumber the birding community (not sure whether this will go down very well here..|;|)

As an amateur astronomer, I know that 7x and 10x are still "kings" of mags for handheld astronomy and a new 7x42/50 roof combining pinpoint stars with a super wide FOV (150m or more) would be a massive hit, just like the SV 10x50 is in its category. The only one that gets near to fitting the bill is the Zeiss FL 7x42, but unfortunately it has limited ER (for spectacles weaver) and average edge sharpness.

If you are a customer lambda, you don't know much about binoculars, it's very likely that you will be given a choice of choosing between 8x and 10x without even knowing that 7x could be a better choice for you, it's how bad the situation has become.
 
I think a really premium, modern 7X42 wide-field porro with a little field flattening and center focus would fill a completely vacant space in the market, appealing to astronomers, mariners, and some hunters & birders, especially if the view out-performed roofs at a similar or higher price. I don't even think it would have to be totally weather-proof. Maybe the pendulum will finally swing back someday? Fujinon? Swarovski?

Dave
 
plc22 said:
.

You don't know how wrong you are by stating that 7x is a niche birding glass,
but the other part of your statement is actually correct.

I have myself little interest in birding and am therefore part of the legion of "others" who, I'm sorry to say, by far outnumber the birding community (not sure whether this will go down very well here..|;|)

As an amateur astronomer, I know that 7x and 10x are still "kings" of mags for handheld astronomy and a new 7x42/50 roof combining pinpoint stars with a super wide FOV (150m or more) would be a massive hit, just like the SV 10x50 is in its category. The only one that gets near to fitting the bill is the Zeiss FL 7x42, but unfortunately it has limited ER (for spectacles weaver) and average edge sharpness.

If you are a customer lambda, you don't know much about binoculars, it's very likely that you will be given a choice of choosing between 8x and 10x without even knowing that 7x could be a better choice for you, it's how bad the situation has become.
Click to expand...



I would classify astronomy as a niche as well. I would hazard a guess hunting is driving the market
 
plc22 said:
.

...

I have myself little interest in birding and am therefore part of the legion of "others" who, I'm sorry to say, by far outnumber the birding community (not sure whether this will go down very well here..|;|)

As an amateur astronomer, I know that 7x and 10x are still "kings" of mags for handheld astronomy and a new 7x42/50 roof combining pinpoint stars with a super wide FOV (150m or more) would be a massive hit, just like the SV 10x50 is in its category. The only one that gets near to fitting the bill is the Zeiss FL 7x42, but unfortunately it has limited ER (for spectacles weaver) and average edge sharpness.

If you are a customer lambda, you don't know much about binoculars, it's very likely that you will be given a choice of choosing between 8x and 10x without even knowing that 7x could be a better choice for you, it's how bad the situation has become.
Click to expand...

If your "legion" represents the larger part of the market, and outnumbers the birding community, why in the world do manufacturers defy your needs and limit your choices to 8x and 10x roofs, when you really want 7x? :h?:

Ed
 
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Unlike others I would shell out good money on a superior 7x.

It wasn't to long ago that it was the norm, most of my glass was 7x.

Never felt handicapped and always served me well.

I won't buy Nikon edg, was looking at Leica but they didn't change the HD enough so its out. Have used an fl in the past but the edges have always been a distraction, to bad because the rest of the view is excellent.

Others complain of the weight of the SLC, yes it could be lighter.

But you would have to replace the huge prisms and it would probably effect other things that make the SLC so good.

Bryce...
 
:

stereotruckdriver said:
But you would have to replace the huge prisms and it would probably effect other things that make the SLC so good.

Bryce...
Click to expand...

Hello Bryce and plc22

Indeed!

If you had a 7x50 with 150m field, you would need rather large prisms. Think Sard 6x42.

Happy nature viewing,
Arthur :hi
 
I won't buy Nikon edg,
Click to expand...

Bryce, Why won't you buy Nikon EDG? Is it that you don't like the product, or is it their after-sales service?

Nikon are sometimes said to have poor after-sales service, but having used them twice in the UK (for two different binoculars) I have found their service to be excellent - on a par with Swarovski (whom I've also used twice). Experiences on the other side of the pond may be different.

Peter
 
peter kitchener said:
Bryce, Why won't you buy Nikon EDG? Is it that you don't like the product, or is it their after-sales service?

Nikon are sometimes said to have poor after-sales service, but having used them twice in the UK (for two different binoculars) I have found their service to be excellent - on a par with Swarovski (whom I've also used twice). Experiences on the other side of the pond may be different.

Peter
Click to expand...

I have an se, it will be my only Nikon.

Bryce...
 
My take on the place of 7x full-sized premium bins over the last 25 years is that they have always been of limited appeal (as indeed, have been _all_ premium/alpha bins). Within the USA and the alpha-buying birding crowd, I think the most significant historical event for 7x in that time was when a number of prominent (and so unwittingly trend-setting) birders selected the Zeiss 7x42 Dialyt/Classic as their binocular of choice, breaking the previous near monopoly of the Zeiss 10x40 Dialyt/Classic in that crowd. Making the jump to the 7x was a natural move for any birder interested in a wider field of view, more depth of field, and better eye relief. New and growing love for the premium 7x was facilitated by the fact that it carried the same Zeiss label as the already much respected Zeiss 10x40 and by the fact that Zeiss did not offer a premium full-sized 8x model (and lack of competition in premium roofs from other manufacturers except Leica). That pattern was later mirrored by Swarovski with release of the 7 and 10x SLC models and no 8x choice. Despite assurances of the adequacy of 7x for birding by the experts, I think most folks still harbored some magnification envy/insecurity, so when 8x premium roofs arrived with FOV almost or as great as the 7x models, many previous 7x users (and prominent trend-setting birders) went to 8 or 8.5x. I know a lot of 7x42 Dialyt and SLC users who went to the 8.5x42 EL.

--AP
 
It may come as a surprise to many birders just how many hunters there are out there. The hunting market is massive, particularly in North America. Hunters buy a lot of binoculars and no doubt the manufacturers cater first and foremost to them. That's good business practice.

One well known NYC optics seller told me that they conservatively estimate that they sell at least ten times as many binoculars to hunters as all the other interest groups combined and the majority are 10x42's.

You don't hear of too many hunters using 7x42's these days although there is definitely a place for them.
 
sako said:
It may come as a surprise to many birders just how many hunters there are out there. The hunting market is massive, particularly in North America. Hunters buy a lot of binoculars and no doubt the manufacturers cater first and foremost to them. That's good business practice.

One well known NYC optics seller told me that they conservatively estimate that they sell at least ten times as many binoculars to hunters as all the other interest groups combined and the majority are 10x42's.

You don't hear of too many hunters using 7x42's these days although there is definitely a place for them.
Click to expand...

Where I live I have proven the benefits of 7x.

Many converts have succumbed to my ever pressing ways.: )

Doesn't matter if your birding or hunting its all the same.

Bryce...
 
Pinewood said:
Hello Bryce and plc22

Indeed!

If you had a 7x50 with 150m field, you would need rather large prisms. Think Sard 6x42.

Happy nature viewing,
Arthur :hi
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind at all and I'd be ok if it were a porro as well (I doubt Swarovski would produce a new range of porros though).

I believe that Zeiss showed the way with the 7x42 FL, time for the others to better that, and please at least 20mm ER.
 
sako said:
It may come as a surprise to many birders just how many hunters there are out there. The hunting market is massive, particularly in North America. Hunters buy a lot of binoculars and no doubt the manufacturers cater first and foremost to them. That's good business practice.
Click to expand...

I have no estimates myself. But if the hunting market outnumbers by far the birding market, I wonder why Zeiss clearly dedicates its new flagship binocular to birders...
 
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