Redstart / flycatcher from Gansu, China .. July 07 (1 Viewer)

I thought these two were a pair. From the jizz of the female I thought they were both flycatchers. Then I started examining the photos with the aid of MacKinnon and Phillips (M&P).

I now think the male is a black redstart - M&P show very different breast colouration to that seen in European birds. I think it is too dark to be a Hodgson's redstart. The light colour on the top of the head is probably just the intense sunlight at the time.

The female still strikes me as more like a flycatcher : a bit slender for a redstart. But I am not convinced. And what about the leg colour ? Redstarts and flycatchers in my books for this area have black legs - even the photographs !

What do you think they are please ?

Mike.

if you hadn't said this was taken in China, I would have had no hesitation in calling these female and male Redstart. Not familiar with Asian Redstarts but could it be a Samamisicus sub-species of Redstart?

Mike,

These are difficult! With regards the female type It could be a tatty looking fem/imm Hodgson's, quite a bill on it. The position of the male doesn't help with its identity, there is a faint hint of white at the base of the secondaries in the image which is pro Hodgson's feature, this however could just be an illusion and I couldn't rule out Black Redstart.

Any more images??
Have a look at this link, it might help anyway and it's a whole lot more reliable than the Birds of China!
http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdimages.php?action=birdfamily&Bird_Family_ID=205

Mark

Thanks to you both.

rockfowl said:

Mike,

These are difficult! With regards the female type It could be a tatty looking fem/imm Hodgson's, quite a bill on it. The position of the male doesn't help with its identity, there is a faint hint of white at the base of the secondaries in the image which is pro Hodgson's feature, this however could just be an illusion and I couldn't rule out Black Redstart.

Any more images??
Have a look at this link, it might help anyway and it's a whole lot more reliable than the Birds of China!
http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdimages.php?action=birdfamily&Bird_Family_ID=205

Mark

Click to expand...

Excellent link No other images

They were carrying food, which ? rules out ? immature for the female.

Looking through the images on the link the female black redstarts shown are all darker underneath, red, while the bird I took is pretty pale without colour. The immature Black redstarts on the link may have less colour, but are also dark.

The bird I took matches the female Hodgsons on the link much better. I see what you mean about possible white on the secondaries of the male - could be either black or Hodgsons.

On the apparent behaviour as a pair, and the underside of the female, I suspect these are both Hodgsons. M&P show both distributions covering this area so not unlikely.

Thanks again, Mike.

Agree that these are difficult even with reference to literature whic I don't have here in the office.

I find that Svensson, the black Collins guide and the Middle East Guide are increasingly useful the further north and west in China you go, although with Hodgson's one of the Grimskipps on the Indian subcontinent would probably be the most useful - lots of the Chinese redstarts winter in India and now I think a bit some of their ranges extend into the Himalayas too.

Very interested to know what else you see in Lanzhou - I briefly birded there in 1991 (with trips to Xinglong Shan - good forest and south to Xiahe on the plains (where I ticked Golden Eagle and Wallcreeper one minute apart!).

However, Xiahe is probably not the best place to show up with lots of optics right now - one of the centres of Tibetan unrest in the last couple of months.

Cheers
Mike