tripod and head for a Canon Ef 500 f/4 (1 Viewer)

george-spiridakis · Mar 31, 2013

Hello,

i would like to ask for opinions on a lightweight tripod for my Canon EF 500mm f/4, and a head system.
I am thinking of a Feisol Traveller tripod, maybe the CT 3441T with a Feisol Gimbal UA 180 U mount.

One important note is that i will rarely use my tripod fully extended with the 500mm lens. I will use it in a lower position while i am sitting in a hide. So the stability of the tripod at the top height is not important for me.

Before i was using a Manfrotto 190 CX Pro4 tripod with a Benro head, but the tripod was not totally stable when i had it half way up.

Is there something more i should have in mind?

Thanks in advance,

George

johnf3f · Mar 31, 2013

I don't have tha 500 F4, but I do currently use the Canon 300 F2.8 L and the 800 F5.6 L (around 700 grams heavier than the 500). I have previously owned the 600 F4 and 400 F2.8 lenses. Personally I use Gitzo tripods though I have used a couple of Feisols and have been impressed, however the model you mention (the 3441 traveler) is simply not up to this kind of work nor is it designed for it.
Have a look at this mopdel: http://www.feisol.com/0823tripodsdetails-2.html - this would be more in line with your needs.
Just because a manufacturer says a tripod will support x kilos does not mean it is suitable for a lens that heavy. Most decent tripods will support a 500 F4 quite happily, my Gitzo 2531 has supported over 50 kilos (rated at 12 kilo) but I would not use lenses bigger than my 300 on it - it is simply not rigid enough, and does not dampen vibration as well as my larger tripods.
As to the UA180 U mount I have never used one but I think the U design would probably interfere with your access to the lens controls. I use a Wimberley 2 for the 800 and a Lensmaster RH1 for the 300. I am told the Lensmaster RH2 (http://www.lensmaster.co.uk/rh2.htm) is a good choice for your lens and it's cheap. It is made in the UK so there would be no customs/duty issues in shipping one to Greece.
Hope some of the above helps.

george-spiridakis · Apr 1, 2013

Thanks John for your help.

I was using a Manfrotto 190CX Pro4 tripod with a Benro head until now. Well, when i was only using the 2 first sections in a hide, i didn't have any noticeable problem, althought the tripod max load was 5kg, and my setup was 5050-5250grams with out the tripod head.
I had a problem when i was photographing mammals, with the IS off. And the reason wasn't just the tripod strenght, it was the fact that i didn't use an appropriate thread and because the particular setup didn't give a good balance at the lens-camera.
So, if i have a tripod with more load strength and a Gimbal head, i think the setup will be much much better. I will not use the tripod set high, i always use the tripod in a hide which i am always sitting.

If someone used or uses a lightweight tripod for a big telephoto lens it will be nice to hear more opinions.

The Gimbal you mentioned seems very good, i syuppose you are very satisfied with the RH-1 you use.

Thanks again for very useful help,

George

johnf3f · Apr 1, 2013

The Gimbal you mentioned seems very good, i syuppose you are very satisfied with the RH-1 you use.

Thanks again for very useful help,

George[/QUOTE]

I like the RH1 for my 300 F2.8 but I think the RH2 would be better for your 500.
Remember these heads, though perfectly adequate and excellent value, do not compare to a Wimberley 2 - mind you the Wimberley is 3 or 4 times the price so it should be better.
As to tripods, do not skimp - it will cost you more in the long run! For your 500 my personal choice would be the Gitzo 3530LS, yes it is expensive but it IS worth it. If funds are limited there are often bargains on the used market, for example between a friend of mine and myself we picked up a Gitzo 3 series Mountaineer, a Gitzo 3 series Systematic and a Feisol Systematic type tripod, all are Carbon, all were in very good to mint condition and all were 100 pounds (UK) or less. Either of those Gitzos is quite happy with a 600 mm F4 IS and 800 F2.6 IS.

george-spiridakis · Apr 2, 2013

I checked the Feisol CT 3372, this will be probably better, but with a central column will go up to 528 euros (594 euros with the horizontal column kit).

This is very expensive (at a Gitzo level price) and it will ship in 1-3 weeks so i will not have it soon even if i order it.

I am looking at the Induro CT 213, still lightweight and with central column, but i can't find it anywere in Europe.

Does someone knows some good stores which sell Induro tripods in Europe?

George

johnf3f · Apr 2, 2013

The Induro looks like a nice tripod and may well do the job (it looks like a re-branded Sirui - Sirui make good tripods) however it will not do the job very well. It is simply too flimsy and will not damp vibration very well. Also why do you need a center column? If you extend it then virtually no tripod will be rigid enough for your 500.
I have tried quite a number of tripods with long telephotos and can confidently say you need a 3 series Gitzo (or something similar/bigger from Sirui/Feisol etc) to get the best from your lens. If you buy a lesser tripod you will end up spending more in the long run, I have been there!

robinsslee · Apr 2, 2013

Just found this thread I am in the same dilemma either Feisol or Gitzo. However after reading many forums about their experiences with tripods I think I have concluded to go for Gitzo. Like johnf3f said, spending a bit more now is better than spending more for a similar item in future and I did think about reselling value of the lesser tripods which may not hold as well as Gitzo.

mpe · Apr 3, 2013

I have CT-3442 (same legs CT-3441T with systematic base w/o central column). CT-3441T won't be enough for 500mm lens. That's tripod good roughly for 70-200/2.8, 300 f/4 or maximum 300 2.8.

I am surprised you were happy with 190CXPRO4. That was weakest standard tripod I've ever seen.

For 500mm lens you definitely want something better. If you want Feisol, get CT-3472 (with 37mm tube diameter). It is still small and light but more sturdy.

george-spiridakis · Apr 4, 2013

'Mpe',

the Manfrotto 190CXPro4 could hold the 500mm lens with a 1D IV body. I was using its thicker legs (upper legs) only, was opening them so the center of gravity was lower down and it was steady enough to allow me photograph from my hide.
I had problems when i wasn't using the IS though.

I will probably get the Feisol Elite 3472, which is sturdy and the same time its weight and size still very good.
Later i may order a central column and horizontal adapter as well if i need it.
I really don't find a reason to spent more money for a Gitzo.

George

johnf3f · Apr 4, 2013

george-spiridakis said:
'Mpe',

the Manfrotto 190CXPro4 could hold the 500mm lens with a 1D IV body. I was using its thicker legs (upper legs) only, was opening them so the center of gravity was lower down and it was steady enough to allow me photograph from my hide.
I had problems when i wasn't using the IS though.

I will probably get the Feisol Elite 3472, which is sturdy and the same time its weight and size still very good.
Later i may order a central column and horizontal adapter as well if i need it.
I really don't find a reason to spent more money for a Gitzo.

George

The Feisol should do a very good job for you, I have not used that specific model but other Feisols I have used are quality products that do their job well.
Personally I prefer Gitzo, but that's just me! To be fair I should mention that I have been lucky with the prices I paid for my 4 Gitzos - what I paid wouldn't buy me 2 now!

mpe · Apr 4, 2013

I've seen MF190CXPRO4 in a show room. The bottom section diameter is 11mm only and the tripod vibrated for a few seconds every time I touched it. Using the top section only could help, but even the thick one is small compared to normal tripod (series 2, feisol 344x, etc.). I think it is adequate for compact cameras with wide lenses. Surprisingly, the aluminium and even 3section version is better.

BTW: You should never use IS while on tripod. The vibrations produced by tripod is very different from camera shake caused by handholding and stabilisation systems are not designed to compensate for that kind of movement (there are scientific reasons behind that). Better IS systems have tripod mode detection and they automatically disable IS while on tripod.

You might be surprised how much sharper you lens actually is once you get solid tripod and disable IS. 500m f/4 is brilliant lens, but need proper support to shine.

johnf3f · Apr 6, 2013

BTW: You should never use IS while on tripod. The vibrations produced by tripod is very different from camera shake caused by handholding and stabilisation systems are not designed to compensate for that kind of movement (there are scientific reasons behind that). Better IS systems have tripod mode detection and they automatically disable IS while on tripod.

You might be surprised how much sharper you lens actually is once you get solid tripod and disable IS. 500m f/4 is brilliant lens, but need proper support to shine.[/QUOTE]

The IS on the 500 F4 L IS Mk1 or 2 is tripod sensing so you don't need to turn it off when using a tripod.

george-spiridakis · Apr 9, 2013

Hello guys,
thanks a lot for your help. I finally ordered a Feisol Elite 3472 tripod and a Jobu design gimbal head. I will try them and i will post my opinion on the same thread.

Thanks again for your advices and opinions.
George

johnf3f · Apr 9, 2013

george-spiridakis said:
Hello guys,
thanks a lot for your help. I finally ordered a Feisol Elite 3472 tripod and a Jobu design gimbal head. I will try them and i will post my opinion on the same thread.

Thanks again for your advices and opinions.
George

You should be happy with that setup.

karthik_rao · Aug 13, 2013

anyone used this lens with a 055XB

Hi
I have a 055xb which is rated for 7kg, and a 488RC0 ballhead rated for 8 KG. I plan to use it without extension mostly, and with Central Column unextended, with a 5dMii and an EF 500 f4 L IS ii. Total weight of Camera, BH and lens is 810+830+3190=4.83Kg.

Has anybody used this lens with this tripod and ballhead? This lens is a good 780g lighter than the older IS I version.

Is this a safe combination to use? Thanks for any advice you may have. Am considering a Gimbal, but not sure if I need one.

johnf3f · Aug 14, 2013

karthik_rao said:
Hi
I have a 055xb which is rated for 7kg, and a 488RC0 ballhead rated for 8 KG. I plan to use it without extension mostly, and with Central Column unextended, with a 5dMii and an EF 500 f4 L IS ii. Total weight of Camera, BH and lens is 810+830+3190=4.83Kg.

Has anybody used this lens with this tripod and ballhead? This lens is a good 780g lighter than the older IS I version.

Is this a safe combination to use? Thanks for any advice you may have. Am considering a Gimbal, but not sure if I need one.

This is just my personal opinion, but I would not even consider using a ball head with your lens. I have 2 ball heads which I use extensively but not with lenses of 300mm or over. Although both will easily support a 600 F4 when locked they become a real handful when unlocked as the whole setup is completely out of balance. Two other things to consider are that they are slower to use and it is more difficult to follow moving subjects.
Given the amount you have spent on your lens I would not skimp on support. I used to have a Manfrotto 55 and it is very good for the price but it is heavy, not very rigid and damps vibration poorly - don't get hung up on weight ratings they are almost meaningless as there is no standard. I use a Gitzo 3530ls (no longer made) and a Wimberley 2 myself and find this combination to be a very good compromise between performance and weight - but not price!
If budget is a consideration then do have a look at the used market - my Wimberley 2 cost 200 GBP and I picked up a Gitzo 1329 Mk2 (predecessor of the 3530LS) for 100 GBP. Both were in good condition and would do a very good job of supporting my 800 F5.6 so would be even better with a 500mm.

Malcolm Stewart · Aug 15, 2013

johnf3f said:
This is just my personal opinion, but I would not even consider using a ball head with your lens. ...

And having used an EF 500 F4L IS for some years with gimbal head and sturdy tripod, that's my view as well. My "lightweight" tripod is a Manfrotto 055XProB and so far, I've not thought of mounting my 500 F/4L on it. I use a Benbo 1 whose legs can be tightened by me. Their tightness does not depend on some "over the centre" clamp.

karthik_rao · Aug 21, 2013

Gimbal Options

Thanks for the advice John, Malcolm. Will it be sufficient to get a Gimbal head for the 055x legs? Say a 393 Manfrotto?
The 055x legs seem quite stable to me, but I have not used anything else, so my impression is not relative to something else.
If the plan is to lurk low and shoot, is there a suitable non-extending tripod that would do the job?

Hor Kee · Aug 21, 2013

Ball heads are out of the question. I have a friend who was using a Nikon 500mm on a ball head. He forgot to lock the head properly and the whole setup tipped over due to the unbalanced weight of the lens. The lens was fine but his brand new D7100 that took the brunt of the fall broke clean in half!

I would recommend the lighter Sirui Ph-20 carbon fiber gimbal head or the Mongoose 3.6 with a low swing arm. Both are light being around only 1kg.

Malcolm Stewart · Aug 21, 2013

karthik_rao said:
Thanks for the advice John, Malcolm. Will it be sufficient to get a Gimbal head for the 055x legs? Say a 393 Manfrotto?
The 055x legs seem quite stable to me, but I have not used anything else, so my impression is not relative to something else.
If the plan is to lurk low and shoot, is there a suitable non-extending tripod that would do the job?

I've been using a Manfrotto 393 gimbal head for many years, with great satisfaction. However, before mounting a heavy (and expensive) lens on your 055XProB legs, I'd strongly recommend that you have the wrench (Manfrotto part number 190,427 http://www.manfrottospares.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=934) so that you can ensure that the over-centre leg clamps are suitably firm.

There's two ways of using the 393 head.
With my smaller 300 F2.8L lens, I have the inner yoke hanging down inside the outer yoke. With the larger 500 F4L, the balance is better with the inner yoke in the high position. This means that when mounting your lens, it has to be threaded between the inner and outer yokes and there's a chance that it will get scratched, so I quickly invested in a neoprene lens cover from Wildlife Watching Supplies. I also added a circular spirit level to the 393 head, and you can see its red housing in the images.

The first image is with the EF 300 F/2.8L IS & 393 mounted on my Benbo 1. The others show my 055XProB, and the 500 F/4L IS.

There's a safety latch on the 393, and over the years it's stopped me dropping lens and camera...

tripod and head for a Canon Ef 500 f/4 (1 Viewer)

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