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Whinchat or stonechat? Riyadh,KSA (1 Viewer)

B

BirdingRob

Brit abroad
Having seen stonechat all winter with most being eastern stonechat, I am perplexed by this bird. Records show, we get a few passage whinchat in spring apparently

Which chat is it, please?

Sorry I only have one picture

Rob www.birdingforalark.blogspot.com
 

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A split verdict so far! Here's my take which I held back on saying so as not to lead (or look silly :)

I don't like the lack of orange throat for it to be a whinchat. I dont like the strength of the supercillium for it to be a stonechat. I haven't even seen a first winter male eastern stonechat (nevermind European) with that strong a supercillium. Also I can see a hint of a spotted rump (if you look carefully) which rules out eastern stonechat anyway.

Cheers Rob
 
Female/1st Winter male Whinchat...the apparant dark area beneath chin and throat in my opinion is shadow...looks like a standard Whinchat..with perhaps a little more white above the greater coverts than might be expected.

cheers
 
Believe me, if you ever spend time looking for Stoliczka's Bushchat in western India, you will find quite a lot of Stonechats with as annoyingly well-marked supercillia as this bird!
 
lou salomon said:
surely of the maurus/variegatus group of stonechat. no whinchat has a dark chin/throat for starters.
Click to expand...

I agree - the white smudge on the back fits too and there's no sign of the white bases to the tail. Google pictures 'Eastern Stonechat' and you'll find several similar birds. The supercilium does look stronger thanin most, but this can be exaggerated by the angle/light etc. I also wonder if Whinchat would be present so early so for me it's certainly not a Whinchat,
 
John Cantelo said:
I agree - the white smudge on the back fits too and there's no sign of the white bases to the tail. Google pictures 'Eastern Stonechat' and you'll find several similar birds. The supercilium does look stronger thanin most, but this can be exaggerated by the angle/light etc. I also wonder if Whinchat would be present so early so for me it's certainly not a Whinchat,
Click to expand...

According to the range map in Collins...they Winter in the Middle East region.
 
Yes, Collins does say Whinchat winter where I saw this bird though the two best historical local recorders only have them in spring and autumn. However I have seen other birds in winter they only saw in passage (eg wryneck). So I would give Collins the credibility.

Also please note this bird does have a partly spotted rump which you can see in the picture if you look carefully. I am not saying it is a whinchat, it just doesn't look like any eastern stonechat I have seen up to now.
 
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BirdingRob said:
Also please note this bird does have a partly spotted rump which you can see in the picture if you look carefully. I am not saying it is a whinchat, it just doesn't look any eastern stonechat I see.
Click to expand...

Huh? I see undertail coverts and flank but no rump on this one ?

Niels
 
Niels, maybe I am seeing things on the lower flank, taking it as rump.

Anyway I have finally reached my own conclusion about the bird (rightly or wrongly)! I just visited the Wikipedia entry on Siberian stonechat. Its very good! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Stonechat.

I quote "males in winter plumage are intermediate between summer males and females with a supercilium resembling a whinchat". There is a picture of a male bird in winter plumage (from India) which is very close to my bird.

I guess Collins (Europe)and Helms (Middle east) can't show every gender/season possibility and I have not been looking hard enough at all the stonechat here.

Once again its been a learning curve. Thanks for everyones help.

Rob www.birdingforalark.blogspot.com
 
Its a certain Stonechat probably an eastern one

edit: Just to support that- look at the head (broader/flatter) shape in comparison to the body and the apparent short wings. Though you can't see the tips, I'd expect a Whinchat to have them "disappear" rather further down the tail
 

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njlarsen said:
Huh? I see undertail coverts and flank but no rump on this one ?

Niels
Click to expand...

A difficult angle, but maybe I am the only one to see a European Stonechat in this. Is there a displaced uppertail covert with a dark centre? Is the colour of the underparts too strong for Siberian? Is there indistinct streaking on flanks?

I feel sure Stenura will be able to help....

Brian S
 

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