Crab Apple (1 Viewer)

Liebchen · Feb 10, 2006

Hi Everyone

I'm thinking of planting a crab apple in my garden as I've heard this tree is popular with birds and insects and doesn't get to big. I've noticed that there are different types crab apples to choose from. To make the right choice I thought I ask my very good friends here for advice. :king:

Has anybody got a crab apple in their garden and what is your view of it being useful to birds and insects? Does it take up a lot of room? Do they grow fast? Also what variety seems to work best? I've read that 'Golden Hornet' keeps it apples longer over the winter compared to the native crab apple. But is it as attractive to birds/insects as the native crab apple? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Liebchen

Silvershark · Feb 10, 2006

I have a crab apple, I'll have to check which type though! It's only small right now even though we've had it two years but it takes around 5 years for them to mature. The birds seemed far more interested in the shop bought apples than the ones from the tree, but the buds last year proved a magnet for bullfinches (when the crab apple was flowering was the only time they were seen in the garden). Haven't really noticed insects been attracted to it, but that will probably change as the foliage returns hopefully denser than before.

Sue Wright · Feb 11, 2006

Liebchen said:
Hi Everyone

I'm thinking of planting a crab apple in my garden as I've heard this tree is popular with birds and insects and doesn't get to big. I've noticed that there are different types crab apples to choose from. To make the right choice I thought I ask my very good friends here for advice. :king:

Has anybody got a crab apple in their garden and what is your view of it being useful to birds and insects? Does it take up a lot of room? Do they grow fast? Also what variety seems to work best? I've read that 'Golden Hornet' keeps it apples longer over the winter compared to the native crab apple. But is it as attractive to birds/insects as the native crab apple? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Liebchen

Hi Liebchen,

I think you're making a very wise choice as they are a real magnet for Blackcaps (so long as you have them in your area), Blue Tits and Blackbirds. However, it's best to leave the 'Golden Hornets' and head for a native specimen with the red crab apples (berries) on as they are apparently far preferred by the Birds. I've just hunted high and low for our shrub/tree book to give you a specimen name for they type you need, but.....I can't find it! However, back again later when I have.

At our last home we had a Crab Apple tree and it was well appreciated there, so that was the first tree we bought when we moved and I'm so glad we did. Attached is a photo of a Blackbird on ours and this year as there have been so many Blackbirds it's the Blackies that have had almost all of them! Also attached are 2 photos of last year's Blackcaps, that pair were here so often and they adore them.

Kat is right when she says it takes roughly 5 years for it to mature, but it's still a wonderful tree long before that. We have our tree planted outside the kitchen window and have some of our feeders on it too which attracts all that's around. There ARE Insects that visit in the spring/summer, there aren't many trees that don't have them!!

Another great shrub for Birds is 'Pyracanthus' wonderful for it's berries as well as the prickles and nesting values and if you haven't got one already I'd certainly advise you do. Best wishes Liebchen, any more questions then do please ask!

Sue

BazR · Feb 11, 2006

Hi Liebchen.

Sue's absolutely right, though I hate to admit it,LOL! the red fruit is certainly more desirable to birds than the yellow. One to look for is Malus ' Red Sentinel', which is smaller that the one you are considering, slightly arching, flowers in May, and carries an abundance of bright scarlet fruit through to March.
If you do go for a Pyracantha, as Sue suggests, go for a red fruiting variety if your intention is to let the birds feed on them; the orange/yellow fruit are always the last to be taken up. I had one of each for many years, so I speak from experience.

All the best.
Baz.

mauricek · Feb 11, 2006

Hi Liebchen. Just wanted to say that if they did not attract insects they would not get pollinated and there would not be any apples but, let's hope we get more insects than last year.
maurice

Isurus · Feb 11, 2006

Agree that the yellow fruited varieties are less popular initially (although once the red varieties are stripped they ours do get some attention). Other nice varieties are red jade which is a weeper with beautiful scarlet fruit and royalty (pink flowers, purpley red fruit).

John Downie is another common variety with very big orange fruit but possibly due to their size it doesn't seem as popular with the birds.

Isurus · Feb 11, 2006

Forgot to add that Baz's red sentinel is a cracker as well - as long as they are ok for your space almost any of the red/purple fruited cultivars are excellent.

Sue Wright · Feb 11, 2006

BazR said:
Hi Liebchen.

Sue's absolutely right, though I hate to admit it,LOL! the red fruit is certainly more desirable to birds than the yellow. One to look for is Malus ' Red Sentinel', which is smaller that the one you are considering, slightly arching, flowers in May, and carries an abundance of bright scarlet fruit through to March.
If you do go for a Pyracantha, as Sue suggests, go for a red fruiting variety if your intention is to let the birds feed on them; the orange/yellow fruit are always the last to be taken up. I had one of each for many years, so I speak from experience.

All the best.
Baz.

Hi Liebchen,

Baz is right, it's 'Malus' (the botanical name for the crab family) 'Red Sentinel', that's the one I was searching for last night (found the book this morning!) Red berried types are the only ones I'd go for (if the Nursery/Garden Centre doesn't happen to have the Red Sentinel) no matter what the price of the others! There are other red berried types available and ours is one, but I can't remember the name |^| , but it's good and the Birds love the berries as you can see from the photos. Good luck Liebchen and let us know if you have any luck.

Sue

Liebchen · Feb 11, 2006

Thank so much for your great advice Sue, Baz, Maurice, Isurus and Kat. Thank you Sue for those lovely pictures. They have certainly convinced me to get a crab apple! Sadly I have only ever seen a fleeting glimse of a male backcap so far but plenty of backbirds. Funny you should all mention 'Red Sentinel' as I have also been looking at that one as it doesn't grow as big as 'Golden Hornet' and I also know birds prefer red! My favourite colour too!

Having done some searching on the internet I found out that the size of the tree can depend on the root stock it is crafted too. One supplier has 'Red Sentinel' crafted on M26 root stock which means the tree won't get bigger then 3.5 m (about 12f) which is great for the space I have in mind. :bounce:

Talking about planting Pyracantha I have planted one against the garage last year which has lovely red berries on which so far haven't been eaten. I have also planted a pyracantha hedge in the front garden which will also have red berries. I have planted 3 cotoneaster bushes around the garden which all have red berries. With the 25ft holly tree my garden should soon be berry heaven. I still get the odd redwing finishing off the last remaining holly berries. :bounce:

My neighbour has cotoneaster all around her back and front garden and every garden around here seems to have an apple tree exept mine. Time to change that.

A crab apple will fit in just nicely.

Thanks again to all of you. Will keep you posted!

Liebchen

Cathy H · Feb 11, 2006

Well done everyonr, you've saved me a lot of effort.

I'd been looking for Golden Hornet as was recommended by someone on this forum as Liebchen says, but when I found it in the nursery I didn't get it. Now I know why.....I've got to get a red one!!!!

Ta muchly! (o)<

Sue Wright · Feb 11, 2006

Liebchen said:
Sadly I have only ever seen a fleeting glimse of a male backcap so far but plenty of backbirds.

If they're around Liebchen then it's just a matter of being patient, but just wait til they see those juicy red berries they'll love 'em! :eat: well something like that!!

Liebchen said:
Talking about planting Pyracantha I have planted one against the garage last year which has lovely red berries on which so far haven't been eaten. I have also planted a pyracantha hedge in the front garden which will also have red berries. I have planted 3 cotoneaster bushes around the garden which all have red berries. With the 25ft holly tree my garden should soon be berry heaven. I still get the odd redwing finishing off the last remaining holly berries. :bounce:

Liebchen

You're certainly doing very well with your berry shrubs and hedges Liebchen, great for you! Your 'odd Redwing' is 1 more than we get! So although some of us get things one year - who knows what we might get next year or any other. Just wait til your reporting back to us about the flock of Waxwings you've had!!! You never know what you might see next when you glance up at the window - that's what happened to us 3 years ago when we saw a Wryneck sitting on the fence.....it stayed with us for 5 full days just eating Ants!!!! :t: Take care M.

Sue

Mutter · Feb 12, 2006

Hi all

Like cathy I was about to go and get a golden hornet but I now know better.

Thanks once again.

andy

Isurus · Feb 12, 2006

Would just add that golden hornet is still an excellent wildlife tree that attracts lots of insects and its berries do provide food for a whole range of animals (even if the birds will go for others in preference at first) so if someone fancies getting one because they like the colour or already have lots of red-berried bushes for example they shouldn't be put off - its not a wildlife no go zone.

2 other reasonably common varieties that are popular with wildlife for us but I forgot to mention yesterday are "profusion" and "rudolf"

Mutter · Feb 13, 2006

Hi Isurus

thanks for the extra info.

andy

Cathy H · Feb 13, 2006

I went to the garden centre today but they had no crab apple, but I got a Daphne - they have winter/spring flowers that are fragrant followed by red berries, please tell me the birds will eat them?

Cheers :hi:

Isurus · Feb 13, 2006

Bad news I'm afraid.

February daphne (Daphne mezereum) is an ornamental shrub that grows across southern Canada. This shrub and other Daphne species are poisonous to humans and animals. The plants contain irritant chemicals that cause pain, burning, and tingling sensations on exposed skin. These sensations are intensified on mucous membranes in the mouth, throat, and stomach after ingesting the fruits. More serious symptoms also occur in humans, including kidney damage, which may lead to death. With the exception of February daphne, the other Daphne species and cultivars are found only as ornamental plants in the more southerly and temperate parts of Canada. February daphne is naturalized in several eastern provinces. Horses and swine have been poisoned and have died after ingesting daphne leaves or berries, although poisoning of animals is a rare occurrence. Family pets can be poisoned if they have access to the plants. Several references give additional information (Frohne and Pfander 1983, Cooper and Johnson 1984, Lampe and McCann 1985, Fuller and McClintock 1986).

http://www.cookiebabyinc.com/poisonousplants/februarydaphne.html

mauricek · Feb 13, 2006

Daphne mezerium is a beautiful shrub already flowerig with a delicate perfume but i would not grow it for the birds.It will will only grow to about 3ft tall by2-3ft wide in 10yrs.Blackbirds love to eat the berries but I can't imagine any dogs or cats doing so and I have never had any adverse effects from handling them.I can recommend a pyracanthus called Apache not as big as most and with smaller berris that are a most brilliant red.

maurice.
P.S.If we didn't grow poisonous plants, our gardens would be almost empty and very boring.

Isurus · Feb 13, 2006

mauricek said:
If we didn't grow poisonous plants, our gardens would be almost empty and very boring.

too right Maurice, no digitalis, no aconitum, no brugmansia to name a few.

Interesting about the blackbirds; this site lists it as harmful to pet birds.
http://www.birdsnways.com/articles/plntstox.htm

Never had any physical reaction to contact either. As mezereum is a native, I'd expect anything likely to be harmed by it to steer clear on instinct.

Cathy H · Feb 14, 2006

Oh well,

thanks everyone, back to the drawing board..... it looks lovely though (sigh). :-C

Liebchen · Feb 19, 2006

Hi All

Just an update to let you know I have ordered 2 crab apples, Red Sentinel and John Downie. Red Sentinel with red fruits for the back garden and John Downie with yellow/red fruits ( apparently make a great jelly) for the front garden.

I have also decided to get an apple tree and that will also go into the back garden. Hopefully the birds will leave some of the apples for us. :-O

Tree stakes and ties ready, ground prepared and just waiting now for delivery and then the trees go into the ground. First fruits should be in about 3 years so it says.

Will keep you posted on any further developments. :hi:

Happy birdies, Liebchen

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