Hybrid gulls? (YLG and LBBG) (1 Viewer)

Here are two adult gulls I photographed today at IJmuiden, Netherlands. One shows a bird we identified in the field as a Yellow-legged Gull and the other as a pale graellsii Lesser Black-back. Seeing them back on the screen I doubt if they aren't hybrids. The YLG seems to show an awful lot of head steaking for a michahellis in November and it has an orangey not red orbital ring. The LBBG looks it a bit too pale if you compare it to the Herring Gull and LBBG in the back.

I must add that there's quite some hybridisation going on in The Netherlands. Most of the Dutch breeders are LBBG x YLG or HG x YLG. This also is (or has been at least) the case in IJmuiden.

Hi Ruud,
nice images, as usuall!
Interesting gulls these, and I would agree that the supposed michahellis has a well streaked head, especially in the hindneck and hindcrown, approaching the "Atlantic populations, or if you like, graellsii/intermedius, but maybe less likeley
(argentatus/argenteus (?), coarse streaking, bluish tinge, your bird seems to lack bluish tinge (?)
The first, could fit a michahellis structure wise, although not a good side view, but the other one is more in line with graellsii/intermedius I think.
Primary moult seem to have reached p8 in both, although variable (!) a bit late for michahellis, graellsii, and argenteus in november, wouldn´t you say? Would have been nice to see spread wings. In Dutch Birding 26:2004, I tried to reed the article by Fred Cottaar, not easy in Dutch, and as you mention, there´s some hybridisation going on,
surely a potential ID trouble. As for the orangey orbital ring, which can be seen in a bird (plate 92) in the article mentioned, is taken in May and not in November, and I presume there is some variation in michahellis, as there would be in argenteus/argentatus and greaellsii/intermedius regarding orbital ring colour.
Pitty these weren´t colour ringed, as I belive many of the hybrids in Holland are.
JanJ

Kind of late yesterday, forgot to mention this, http://www.surfbirds.com/ID Articles/adriaensgulls1203.html, which I´m sure you have seen!
That is as far I have been dealing with this issue, but ther are some interesting point in there!
JanJ