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Old Today, 06:19   #501
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Originally Posted by Purple Heron View Post
@ hwinbermuda I see what you mean about those comments. The authors of this study do footnote, in their conclusions section, (8,9,10,11 and 19--but looking at the references I think they must mean 20) other studies that have looked at the same issue. One would have to read those studies, I think, and the peer review comments might also be illuminating if one could find them. I wish I could find out more about Gateshead--I think I said earlier that still births and miscarriages are being reported there. One personal experience--my sister used to live directly opposite an antenna park in Athens. She had her first child without any problem (she was living elsewhere then) but had a lot of trouble carrying the second baby to term and was on all kinds of medications to stop a miscarriage. Looking back (obviously neither of us made any association of the antenna park with her troubles at the time)I think what might have saved her pregnancy--and my niece--was the fact that she spent the middle 3 months away from Athens. Of course this is not proof, merely an indication why I think there may in fact be an association between miscarriage and EMR.
No one can say that a particular case will turn out one way or the another because of EMR. Research conclusions, such as the Kaiser study, simply inform us of the percentage change in probability that a miscarriage will occur beyond its base level. So the value of the research, essentially, is to quantify the increase in risk, and if the change is statistically significant we have that degree of confidence in the conclusion. Of course, this doesn't preclude unknown factors from contaminating the results, so replications are needed. It's a probability game.

Understanding optics is child's play compared to understanding child's play.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts." Richard Feynman
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Old Today, 10:13   #502
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@ Gordon I did say my sister's experience wasn't proof, didn't I? But reading that study did make me wonder. Ed's comment following yours is very much to the point.

I very much like the quote by Feynman that Ed posts at the bottom of his comments "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" because that sums up nicely what this thread is all about. The so-called experts have been telling us for years that wireless technologies are safe, and I challenge that view, based both on personal observation and the opinion/work of opposing scientists.

If you stop to think about it, all scientific progress is the result of challenging what the experts of the time believed to be immutable fact: the sun goes around the earth; the earth is flat; here be dragons; witches float. In medieval times, the authority was the Catholic church. A very narrow interpretation of Holy Writ by self-proclaimed ecclesiastical "experts" led to the centuries-long Dark Ages where no scientific progress was made at all. And things would in all likelihood have gone on this way but for two significant events, interrelated: the fall of Byzantium in 1453, where the move westwards by the scholars fleeing the Turks brought with them the results of centuries of scientific discoveries, and the Crusades, in which Europeans came into contact with the Arab world. Not only were the Arabs superb mathematicians in their own right, but they had also built their scientific base on the knowledge of the ancient world, which had not been lost as in Europe. Even after these events, scientific progress in Europe was greatly hampered by trying to reconcile the precepts of the church with scientific discovery, and early scientists had to do some very fancy footwork to avoid saying that what they were learning about the physical universe meant that the church was wrong. If you want to read some good examples of this, try the novel "An Instance of the Fingerpost" by Iain Pears. Truly fascinating.

Today we no longer have the church as the ultimate authority in all things scientific, but we do have other, equally dangerous challenges to the spirit of open scientific enquiry. The military-industrial complex perceives the world in the same narrow way as the medieval church, and today's gods are money and power. (Not much changes: money and power were at the heart of the medieval church's supremacy as well.) But all questioning of accepted scientific views begins with an observation that seems to challenge them. Someone--not I--first wondered if exposure to EMR could lead to miscarriage. Did he have a sister, a neighbor or a wife who lost a baby while living near a source of EMR? Did he then notice a pattern of women who lived near sources of EMR and also had miscarriages? Did he then think, "I should do a study about this and see if there's anything to my theory that EMR might cause miscarriage?" Of course this study should be replicated to see if the results are confirmed. But someone had to notice a correlation in the first place.
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Old Today, 10:41   #503
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New, major Italian study confirms results of NTP study

It looks as if the NTP study results were not a fluke. A major new study done in Italy also found malignant schwannomas of the heart in male rats, and this confirms results of an earlier study done by the same authors in 2016 finding malignant schwannomas as a result of power-line EMR (see link in text). This new study, due to be published within the week, is reviewed here:

Also of interest is an article titled "Celll Tower Radiation Facts and 5G Unknowns" at
Ignore the really weird stuff (advertisements?) on the same page; it's a good article and has links to a number of studies about cancer incidence near cell towers/base stations. The author asks what 5G will do to the environment. I'd like to know if anybody cares what it will do to the environment.

There is also a link to a talk about 5G weaponized frequencies (I mentioned this a couple of days ago) given by Barbara Johnson, an electrical engineer and star wars technician. 55 minutes long, scary stuff. If you use EMR as a weapon on human populations, what do you think that will do to insects, birds and small mammals? Here's the link:
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