Recommendation in Words of One Syllable? (1 Viewer)

My apologies, I HAVE made an effort to read through all the videoscoping threads, but aside from a list of camera models, haven't found what I was looking for yet.

I haven't even got a camera; just a Swarovksi ATS65HD. Till now I have been waffling about which Nikon CP to get (balancing reviews with prices, basically); but I also need a digital video camera for other work and am now wondering (since I'll never be a serious digiscoper-- just want to be able to take some pix occasionally) if I should kill two birds with one stone (to employ an unfortunate cliché) and get a video camera to use with the scope instead.

Being advertised here in Japan now, for instance, is the Sony Digital Handycam DCR-TRV60(JE), which has a whole bunch of specs which I can't evaluate, but the ads say it has Progressive Recording Mode which 'allows every video frame to become a high res still photo'.

Q1: Does this sound promising? Or do I have to know what I'm doing first?

Q2: More importantly, are there certain video cameras which work supernaturally well with a scope, like the CP990/995/4500 series does in the case of still cameras?

Q3: Is there a danger that some video cameras will NOT adapt to my scope at all? What should I look for?

Please don't wear the characters off your keyboard, but some brief advice would be greatly appreciated. I am afraid to make any decision on my own-- my wife will kill me if I have to throw out any more expensive appliances.

Chas.

I get by with just the camera; I don't attach it to my scope, which can give veinnetting (spelling?), those shaddowy areas in the corner of the frame.

With just the camera and an occasional use of a 1.9x converter lens I can get some reasonable results. Sure, it's not the stuff of Discovery Channel but the birds are clear for everyone to see.

The manufacturers are in a perpetual world of revising and updating their cameras so, one person's recommendation may already be withdrawn - plus a camera we can buy here in Europe may not be available in Japan. I've not heard of 'progressive recording mode' but then I'm no tech-junkie! If you want to make stills from your footage it may be useful but remember, all video frames give tiny file sizes and hence don't look so good.

Here's some technical stuff to think about though:

1. Get the highest 'optical' magnification you can (at least x20) Don't get too concerned about digital magnification as using this will degrade your image quality.

2. You need a colour viewfinder - monochrome is no good for following birds through vegatation. Those side screens that open up are useful for watching what you've filmed but gobble up battery power and are useless in bright light.

3. Image stabilisers are essential for handheld work.

4. Compatability. Mini DV tapes seem to be the most popular here. Buying the lastest tape format might seem 'cool' but if it doesn't take off you may have problems buying then in the future.

5. DV in DV out. This allows your camera to act like a VCR. If you plan to do any editing with a computer this is essential.

6. Accessories: you will need to have to hand plenty of spare batteries, and possibly a charger, tapes and a teleconverter. A tripod will be handy but essential for use with a scope or teleconverter.

Sorry I cannot comment on using a scope. To me, like digiscoping, it always looks awkward and time consuming and would detracked from the birding. For me the wonderful thing about a handheld camcorder is that its impact on my birding is slight and yet, I still come home with some really good footage.

Dave

I hope you find this helpful.

You see, I am pretty stupid-- you mean I can shoot birds without a scope??

er...yup.

Hi Charles, I use a video camera occasionally (the Nikon CP4500 has taken over a little though) and got some fairly good results. The camera is a Sony DCR240V with a 25x optical zoom and I've had some acceptable results from it (assuming you're not going to get too 'picky' about picture quality). It's a little heavy for video scoping though and tends to make the tripod head tilt quite badly.
I've attached a composite shot taken on very low light earlier this year. There's no way a still camera would have got shots of Hen Harrier cooming to roost like this......

Oh, that is nice, CJ. OK, I think I'll just go looking for a handicam with at least a 20x, etc. as per your list, Phyllo, and forget about scope compatibility. I'm going to San Diego next week, and will check out prices in the camera shops there-- should be able to get something a little cheaper than here--- and the manual will be in English.

By the way, Phyllo, hope you got my note-- I wasn't.. what's the word? 'gripping'? 'dipping'?-- I am waiting again to see SB Sandpiper-- still haven't seen one, just waiting again.

PS: 'vignette' - 'vignetting'.

Charles

just to enlighten you !

Stills -

I have spent the last 4 years perfecting this technique of still images with a camcorder but i also video the birds as well !

The Sony TRV60 is a digital camcorder that has a "still facility"

this means that the camcorder has two functions -

Video Mode - can only record video onto the mini DV cassette or memeory stick when switched to this function

Still mode - can only take still pictures onto the memory stick in this mode

Still pictures on the model you described are 2 million pixels in size

a videograb is as it says, means playback the footage frame by frame or on slow speed and then pause the frame, look for the sharpest frame then snap a picture to the memory stick, normally video grabs are between 640,000 and 800,00 pixels sony camcorders are normally 640,000

Equipment -

If you are serious about the video camera and stills using a scope, the only real option at the moment is the Sony PC120 digital camcorderwhich has a 1.5 million pixel still facility, you will find the TRV60 a little bulky and top heavy to go on your scope, i am told by my friend at Sony there will be a new generation of Sony Palmcorders with a 2 mill pixel facility which will be lighter and slimmer than the Sony PC range, they may be out in Japan now ? Then you will have to look at an adapter to connect your camcorder to your scope and then possibly a video head ( Manfrotto 501 ) you need to way up the cost obviously and the weight ! The scope lens can make all the difference as well, so you really need a low powered scope lens, i now use the eagleeye 10X lens for my video and stiil functions on my camcorder which reduces your magnification greatly and sharpens your picture, see attached for a still picture

Sony PC100 ( 1 mill pixels) Leica APO, Leica 20X lens

if this hasnt put you off ! send me a PM

Rgds

Paul

Charles.

Yeah, I read your reply regarding 'gripping' If you had seen SB Sand then you would have 'gripped us off', as it was you 'dipped out'. Better luck this autumn!

Paul

Super shot of the Bee-eaters.

Dave

Digital Camcorders for digiscoping.

I've read Paul Hacketts information on the use of the Sony pc DCR 120. as used as a digital camcorder. The model I have, and I cannot praise it too highly, is the DCR 12O e.
To have good quality still pictures of birds, is quite common place
today with the Nickon 4500 and may be even better with an updated version which seems to be on the cards.
By far more interesting, (and more difficult) is to register birds in a moving situation.
These can be transposed to a video tape and make far more interesting viewing for one's self and for other ornithologically minded persons.
If you wish to be at the forefront of digiscoping, do away with the 'stills' camera, and move up to camcorder.

N.B. I purchased an adaptor from Eagle Eye optics over a year ago, to fit my camera to my excellent Nikon ED 78, but threw it away many months ago: I now use my unique adaption which works far better than Eagle Eye's.

Graham C. Vaudin.

Thanks for the recommendation, Graham. How did you make your adaptor?

And welcome to BF!

Hi forum, this is my 1st post and I was going to start a new thread but this seems a good place to put my question.
After a hard save I have bought myself a Sony TRV33e and a 2nd hand Swaro AT80HD with a 20-60 zoom, it came with an adapter (probably from LCE and with a 37mm thread,) and I have bought a stepdown ring to 30mm to connect to the cam. With a trial setup I can get good stills and movies, but I have to zoom in to get rid of the vignetting, this makes it impossible to use "in the field".
I have been thinking about the Eagleeye 10x lens, which I can afford but with a new adapter it's £200 and I can not be sure that it would work.
So any ideas or suggestions ?

Hi Lorne and a big welcome to BirdForum from all the admin and moderators here. We hope you enjoy your time here.

I'm currently using the EagleEye 10x eyepiece (review in the making) with the AT80HD scope and a Panasonic DV77 camera..... it's totally revolutionised my videoscoping, with vignetting only visible at full wide-angle on the camera... can't guarantee the vignetting results on your videocam but I'd be pretty sure it will be an improvement.

Shame you have to get another adapter, but I think it would be worthwhile in the long run.

Best regards,
Andy

Thanks for that Andy, so it seems the EagleEye 10x is the best way to go, the adapter I have now is C.47mm and slides nicely over the Swaro lens, so is the EE 10x anything like that dia.? I'm wondering now if I can perhaps adapt my adapter?
Regards

More information

Graham V said:

I've read Paul Hacketts information on the use of the Sony pc DCR 120. as used as a digital camcorder. The model I have, and I cannot praise it too highly, is the DCR 12O e.
To have good quality still pictures of birds, is quite common place
today with the Nickon 4500 and may be even better with an updated version which seems to be on the cards.
By far more interesting, (and more difficult) is to register birds in a moving situation.
These can be transposed to a video tape and make far more interesting viewing for one's self and for other ornithologically minded persons.
If you wish to be at the forefront of digiscoping, do away with the 'stills' camera, and move up to camcorder.

N.B. I purchased an adaptor from Eagle Eye optics over a year ago, to fit my camera to my excellent Nikon ED 78, but threw it away many months ago: I now use my unique adaption which works far better than Eagle Eye's.

Graham C. Vaudin.

Click to expand...

Can you enlarge on your "unique adaption" please

video adapter

I'd be keen to know about your adator as I use the same set up as yourself, inc the eagle-eye adapter!

Cheers

Martin

Graham V said:

I've read Paul Hacketts information on the use of the Sony pc DCR 120. as used as a digital camcorder. The model I have, and I cannot praise it too highly, is the DCR 12O e.
To have good quality still pictures of birds, is quite common place
today with the Nickon 4500 and may be even better with an updated version which seems to be on the cards.
By far more interesting, (and more difficult) is to register birds in a moving situation.
These can be transposed to a video tape and make far more interesting viewing for one's self and for other ornithologically minded persons.
If you wish to be at the forefront of digiscoping, do away with the 'stills' camera, and move up to camcorder.

N.B. I purchased an adaptor from Eagle Eye optics over a year ago, to fit my camera to my excellent Nikon ED 78, but threw it away many months ago: I now use my unique adaption which works far better than Eagle Eye's.

Graham C. Vaudin.

Click to expand...

still image capture from progressive scan recording

Charles, I use a Sony PC330 in progressive scan mode. I use a low power Scopetronix Maxview 40 with Zeiss bayonet fit. This eyepiece has a T mount which can take dv cams providing there is an adaptor, in my case a 37mm screw threaded. The stills from progressive video are really quite good in my opinion but do not match the quality of a still camera (I also use a nikon 4500). What you can get is super fast shutter speed and an aperture of f1.8. This combination enables me to capture birds when a 4500 would fail. I enclose a video grab from a warbler that was activley feeding in a bush in the early morning.

Wow, nice! Thanks for the details-- and the detail, dahyon.

Andy Bright said:

with the AT80HD scope and a Panasonic DV77 camera..... it's totally revolutionised my videoscoping, with vignetting only visible at full wide-angle on the camera... can't guarantee the vignetting results on your videocam but I'd be pretty sure it will be an improvement.

Click to expand...

Since you've been playing around with the new little Contax, I wonder if you can comment on how viable it might be to approach the videoscoping from the opposite direction. The Contax SL300R will do 640x480 30fps video until its memory card is filled up. This should be very close in quality to DV footage. The conversion from 30fps to 25fps for the PAL crowd may complicate things, and the card capacity is also an issue for sure. But given the compact nature of the camera and the fact that any "all-in-one" solution will involve significant compromise, I wonder if it might make as much sense to use the Contax and spend the extra money on some big fast memory cards?

Now if only they would get these still cameras to start recording in DV-Cam format.....