Grey squirrels face massive cull (1 Viewer)

Native red squirrels are outnumbered by greys by 66 to one
A massive cull of grey squirrels is to take place across Britain to try to halt declining numbers of the endangered native red population.
Biodiversity minister Jim Knight said "humane and targeted pest control" would cull greys in areas where red squirrels are being 'squeezed out'.
Most reds are confined to Cumbrian and Northumbrian conifer woods, the Isle of Wight and islands in Poole Harbour.
They are weaker than grey squirrels, which also carry the Squirrelpox virus.
Mr Knight said the aim was not to completely eradicate the greys, which have a population estimated at more than two million - outnumbering red squirrels by 66 to one.
But he said: "We must control them effectively now or there will be serious consequences."
Grey squirrels were introduced to Britain from North America in the 19th Century and have thrived in lowland areas.
It is thought the cull will use poison to reduce numbers over the next three years.
The cull is being jointly organised by the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Forestry Commission, after consultation with various groups, including English Nature, the National Trust, the RSPCA and the European Squirrel Initiative.
Mr Knight added: "Many people love grey squirrels, but the reality is that they are a real problem for some of our most threatened native species.
"Grey squirrels seriously threaten woodland management through damage to trees and woodlands and by squeezing out red squirrels and possibly other wildlife like woodland birds."
He said projects such as Red Alert north England, which manages woodland areas so they are less well-suited to grey squirrels, illustrated that intervention can work.
Lord Clark, chairman of the Forestry Commission, said the policy gave workers a "clear mandate" for protecting native species of woodland and wildlife, while allowing a "controlled presence of non-native species".
But the European Squirrel Initiative, which campaigns for the protection of the red squirrel, called for more effective ways of controlling the grey population.
It said drugs should be considered to sterilise the greys.


Hi everyone,
just found this on the bbc news website
What are your thoughts?

Scott

Hi Scott

Well I recently had a grey Squirrel in my Garden. First ever and I found it rather cute and fun to watch. However we have a nature reserve nearby owned by the Natural History Society of which I am a member, where the Red Squirrels are very much threatened. If we can conserve the Red Squirrels,natural to the UK by culling the Greys, that aren't, then so be it. We have to accept I think, if we are serious about conservation, that it does mean culling at times. I am sure many will disagree but that is the opinion I stick by. Bit like the need to cull Ruddy Ducks in order to save the threatened White Headed Duck in Spain. Biodiversity is important. Sad thing is that it is mans mistakes cause these problems. Never a good idea to introduce alien species to an area. I am concerned to have listened to some crackpot on the radio yesterday morning going on about culling Grey Squirrels and then with much gusto saying that once they are done we should move onto Magpies and Sparrowhawks. Thats not conservation it is just stupidity in my opinion. Strange thing was that the guy went unchallenged. I suspect because the interviewer on Radio 4 didn't know much about the subject under discussion.

I must add that I think it has been left rather late to start thinking about the damage Grey Squirrels do and whilst I am sure they are a real threat one way or another to our native reds I am not so sure that the other damage is to the extent often claimed. I admit I just don't know about that. I do honestly wonder if we have left it to late to ensure healthy populations of Red Squrrels.

Take care

The Greys do lots of damage to trees also and the blighters have trashed more than one of my feeders in the past. A necessary evil but if it means saving the Red then so be it.

Hi scott,
The red squirrels largest sronghold in Wales is only a few miles away from me. The longer the greys are left alone, the more reds we loose. I for one, do not want them to dissapear from wales, let alone the whole of the uk.

ant

Hi I sometimes feel the greatest threat to all wildlife are the Humans, any suggestions for control of this menace.
Im not getting into this debate I think my views on man playing at God are well known.
PeterK

:clap: :clap: :clap:

PeterK said:

Hi I sometimes feel the greatest threat to all wildlife are the Humans, any suggestions for control of this menace.
Im not getting into this debate I think my views on man playing at God are well known.
PeterK

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:clap: :clap: :clap:

Yes of course human activity is the greatest threat to wildlife and in fact the future of the planet Earth and as I mentioned earlier it is human mistakes that brought the Grey Squirrel here in the first place. The problem we now have in the world is how we attemt to conserve what wildlife we have left, taking into account that barring some massive disaster or some remarkable change in population control, we are stuck with an ever increasing human population. Therefore it seems to me that humankind will have no choice but to play 'God' in an attemt to conserve species. Either that or we stand by and and let nature take its course. Only problem there, is that we are part of nature and have played a gigantic role in arriving at where we are now. There are clearly no easy answers but if we are to choose between the loss of a natural species and that of an introduced species, I am on the side of the natural species and would support difficult decisions being taken, although as I said earlier in this case the decision is a late one and perhaps too late to make much difference to the Red Squirrel. I am certainly against the destruction of wildlife in order to allow mankind to have its sport or to make a few exra 'bucks' but i think this and other similar cases are entirely different.

Cheers

PeterK said:

Hi I sometimes feel the greatest threat to all wildlife are the Humans, any suggestions for control of this menace.
Im not getting into this debate I think my views on man playing at God are well known.
PeterK

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Hi Scott,

I agree with Peter and am always against killing (culling the name may be, but killing is what it is!) of any sort.

However, the last sentence of Bri's first post above says it all really

"I do honestly wonder if we have left it too late to ensure healthy populations of Red Squrrels."

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The Forestry Commission has annual culls of Greys every year yet they seem still to be in very high numbers in Forests. It will take a great deal of time to eradicate them from the Country - if ever - but also a shame the reds have had to suffer as a result. It seems sadly as though the irreparable damage has been done now by the idiots who bring animals into the Country in the first place, making it now a "catch 22 situation".

Sue

Hi as I understand it the CULL will take place in a Ten mile radius around any red sqirral habitat, that does in no way remove all or even most of the Grey Squirrals. One question how many of you who support this will be prepared to KILL the grey squirrals? or is it a case of letting someone else do the dirty work.
Yours PeterK

PeterK said:

Hi as I understand it the CULL will take place in a Ten mile radius around any red sqirral habitat, that does in no way remove all or even most of the Grey Squirrals. One question how many of you who support this will be prepared to KILL the grey squirrals? or is it a case of letting someone else do the dirty work.
Yours PeterK

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Hi Peter,
Have you any idea how long this cull will go on for? The reason I ask is that whenever there is a vacant territory it is immediately filled by a outsider. Surely if it is only a short term answer then it will be a waste of time.
George

I concur with Brian, it's a battle that cannot be won. Evolution will always win no matter what we do to intervene.

We changed the evolutionary process by introducing the greys, just as we have done by introducing Ring necked parkeets, mink and further in the past rabbits. We're part of evolution and always will be until we become extinct.

I believe we should try to protect the reds and if that means culling greys then so be it I'm afraid.

andy

Hi Andy Agrreed we are the problem, always introducing species, too often without enough research or thought to the end result. But even if I could agree with you and Brian on this, I would still argue it is a waste of time, you cannot possiby from a practical standpoint destroy enough greys to really succeed. How many do you think would be sufficient? and for how long can we go on slaughtering the greys? These are questions that must be faced, do we have paid killers in our woods, I know they shoot greys on one CP near here, but only when no-one is around, why because the Ranger says it would cause trouble if the locals found out.
The proposed Elephant CULL in Africa will require the chosen beasts being driven onto a closed reserve, so it will not affect tourism, my god isnt that appalling!
Yours PeterK

PeterK said:

Im not getting into this debate I think my views on man playing at God are well known.
PeterK

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Hi Peter

I am glad you changed your mind as I know you have strong feelings about this issue and it is good to have a good debate on exbeebers where both sides of a difficult argument can be raised. Think I may have a few more comments myself. Shows that exbeebers forum can be a lively one. I think a few had their doubts about that!

Regards

PeterK said:

Hi Andy Agreed we are the problem, always introducing species, too often without enough research or thought to the end result. But even if I could agree with you and Brian on this, I would still argue it is a waste of time, you cannot possiby from a practical standpoint destroy enough greys to really succeed. How many do you think would be sufficient? and for how long can we go on slaughtering the greys? These are questions that must be faced

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Hi Peter
As I mentioned, it's a battle that cannot be won, as we've dabbled with evolution, we won't be able to undo our work.

Should we just let nature take it's course and perhaps witness the demise of a species? I honestly don't know the answer.

Culling isn't the only way to to control a population though, sterilisation could be an answer but more it's more hit and miss. Habitat change could be a solution but would take many years to effect. Introduction of predators / parasites ? Not viable and also what would be the consequences of that introduction.

It's a tricky one but like your analogy with the elephants their are other examples, eg rats in New Zealand wiping out Kakapo populations. Should we let that happen? The Ivory Billed woodpecker, should we forget about it and destroy it's habitat? this brings us onto the other issue of our destruction of habitat. Should we try and rectify this by managing habitat and controlling nature?

Lots of questions but very few answers I'm afraid.

andy

Everyone knows it's us humans who have caused this problem ; introducing a foreign creature to our island that will provide competition with one of our native species was completely stupid but there you go. Where we have created this problem many would say we should resolve it too, and not let nature take it's course as this wasn't what nature intended in the first place. I agree that culling magpies and sparrowhawks is silly as they are native and IF they are causing a decline in songbirds then let nature take it's place. I wish reds and greys could live alongside each other without any hassle but I don't think that's the case, so though I don't like the idea of it I'm afraid something will have to be done about the greys |=(| It's not their fault.

I'm rather torn by the whole issue.

I hate the thought of killing the squirrels whilst I don't want to lose the reds either.

I just don't see how this cull will make any difference. Surely you're not talking about completely wiping them out? But if not, they will only fill in the gaps that are left and eventually we will be back to square one!

I live in an area with greys, but not that far from me I understand that there are reds still about. There was no mention of any areas of Scotland at the beginning of this thread, are they not being culled here?

Cheers, :t: :flyaway:

Hi Cathy,

It's becoming a bit confusing to say the least. Some thoughts about the Squirrels are also spilling over onto Ruth's "Still Hanging On" thread, which is where I put my views earlier tonight. I think most of those contributing are thinking along the same lines as yourself though - it's not an easy debate at all.

Your sentence [QUOTE "I hate the thought of killing the squirrels whilst I don't want to lose the reds either."/QUOTE] sums up my feelings exactly as I've watched and loved the Reds up in Scotland, but love the Greys we see here often! No easy answers at all Cathy and a subject that will rumble on for a long time I fear.

Good to see you Cathy, best wishes,

Sue

Sue & Terry said:

Hi Cathy,

It's becoming a bit confusing to say the least. Some thoughts about the Squirrels are also spilling over onto Ruth's "Still Hanging On" thread, which is where I put my views earlier tonight. I think most of those contributing are thinking along the same lines as yourself though - it's not an easy debate at all.

Your sentence [QUOTE "."/QUOTE] sums up my feelings exactly as I've watched and loved the Reds up in Scotland, but love the Greys we see here often! No easy answers at all Cathy and a subject that will rumble on for a long time I fear.

Good to see you Cathy, best wishes,

Sue

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Hi everyone,
I think that Grey Squrriels should be culled in some areas, but as some people have said it would be hard to stop them spreading back into there areas that culls have taken place. It is a hard one!

<<I hate the thought of killing the squirrels whilst I don't want to lose the reds either>>
well said Cathy

Scott

Ivor_Frog said:

introducing a foreign creature to our island

I'm afraid something will have to be done about the greys |=(| It's not their fault.

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Hello Ivor

I disagree with "our" island - I would have thought that we share this beautiful island with so many diverse species, I agree that it is a terrible disaster that the reds are being erradicated by the dominant greys, but we did invite the greys to "share" our island with us all and having done so we cannot now go back. There does seem to be some success in Scotland - by encouraging forests that support Reds but not Greys and that seems to me to be the only moral way of control.

Bride (I am always living in hope of seeing a Red squirrel whilst on holiday in Scotland - just missed one last time but I shall keep on trying)

Bridie,

If you're ever around the west coast not far from loch lomond there's a garden there called Ardkinglas which is open to the public. They regularly put out food for the reds. I've not been yet, but I've read their reports on the net.

You will find it on www.ardkinglas.com

Click on the woodland garden and again on diary and you will see they had them visiting last month.

Cheers, B