Novice's early observations on DSLR photography. (1 Viewer)

Only very recently got a Canon 350D and Sigma 170-500 lens and my initial observations on using them are:-

* You need to learn a new language to understand how to use them eg. mirror lock,noise reduction,predictive AF and lens creep (this last one could be wrong as it sounds more like a disease that effects men)

* Taking good pics is not the only skill you have to learn you also have to master the mysterious world of photo editing.

* As I was warned on BF even with a 500 lens you have to get within an arms lentgth of a small bird to get a good pic.

* Birds will move off the moment you,ve got them in your viewfinder.

* Handhoding a 500 lens steady is impossible for humans.Anyone that achieves this is an alien.This is the main alien identification test done by MI 5.

* Anyone that gets a sharp and detailed pic of a bird is using a camera and lens costing at least £10,000.

*You need bright conditions to get a decent pic but the moment you receive your camera/lens from the dealer the weather will be dull for day after day.

* According to everyone you meet after you have bought your camera and lens you have missed a better deal elsewhere or even worse you've bought the wrong kit.

Have I missed anything?I am sure I have because what do I know about this fascinating world of DSLR photography.

Max.

a nice list Max - some of which rings very true...

no matter what anyone tells you, you certainly haven't got the wrong kit - that camera and lens combo will allow you to get some great photos.

I know what you mean about having to learn the language... though once you do you'll start using it when talking to friends who have no interest in photography!

Don't worry though, you really don't need to spend £10000+ on kit to get good, sharp shots - just look at Psilo's gallery and you'll see what can be achieved using the same kit as you've got. That said - be warned... you will find yourself wanting to buying bigger, better (more expensive) lenses...

All good stuff, Max!

I did manage to get this shot http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/80077/sort/1/cat/500/page/1 today on yet another cloud-filled morning with a lens that cost me 249 quid so don't despair - yet!

LOL Max,
Welcome to the wonderful world of birding Ain't it grand?....lol

Just when you thought you had a handle on this picture taking business, you fancy you will try birds. Interesting subjects, usually with nice colors and a great amount of detail. Most of the time they just sit there and beg you to take a pic. Sort of like winged flowers...lol All you have to do is make sure they are in focus. Come on, how hard can that be, right? Rightttttttttt.......lol

Like you, I found out that these shots are not so easy to capture and that people who get great bird shots are not only to be admired, they are to be respected for the time and effort they have put in to get to this level. I believe it's called "paying one's dues".

If you go back and analyze each shot, you will understand what you need to improve on, next time out. Keep doing this and after a few thousand images (or tens of thousands in my case...lol, it took me a couple of thousand images alone just to learn how to hold the Bigma steady , you will not only be happy with your results, you will be proud to display them.

You are right on with most of your observations. I'd just add "even with a 1200mm lens, an avid birder will still desire more reach"

Hang in there Max, the results will be worth it,
Steve

Don't dispair Max. I am new to DSLR as well and once I got over the fact that I will never bring the subject in like I did with digiscoping, I just concentrated on trying to get the best exposure and best shot I could. I have dumped thousands of shots in the short time I have had it but I am also fairly happy with some of the few I kept. All of the following were hand-held. I guess what I am getting at is that just stay with it and dump thousands of shots but not thousands of dollars. One other thing, I never would have gotten a flying bird with digiscoping.

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/79553/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/78411/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38125

Adey Baker said:

All good stuff, Max!

I did manage to get this shot http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/80077/sort/1/cat/500/page/1 today on yet another cloud-filled morning with a lens that cost me 249 quid so don't despair - yet!

Click to expand...

Hi Adey,
What a great pic.I would be more than happy to get a pic that good on a bright day.What were your camera set up values and were you using a tripod?

Max.

KCFoggin said:

Don't dispair Max. I am new to DSLR as well and once I got over the fact that I will never bring the subject in like I did with digiscoping, I just concentrated on trying to get the best exposure and best shot I could. I have dumped thousands of shots in the short time I have had it but I am also fairly happy with some of the few I kept. All of the following were hand-held. I guess what I am getting at is that just stay with it and dump thousands of shots but not thousands of dollars. One other thing, I never would have gotten a flying bird with digiscoping.

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/79553/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/78411/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38125

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Great pics KC.I will keep going and in any case it,s good fun!!!

I can add to my initial list after spending a day with the camera at Draycote Water.During the day I had six chances to take a pic of a Kestrel.On four attempts I scared the bird away which is fair enough and due to my lack of fieldcraft but the other two occasions my failure to take a pic was down to one : the camera was not switched on and two: the lens cap was on.Of course the bird flew off in both cases.How pathetic is that!Is there no hope for me?

Max.

senatore said:

Hi Adey,
What a great pic.I would be more than happy to get a pic that good on a bright day.What were your camera set up values and were you using a tripod?

Max.

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ISO 400, Shutter speed 1/200th, aperture F5.6. I was using 'aperture-priority (av)' exposure mode with 1/3rd stop under-exposure dialed in.

Hand-held - sorry about that - I got my first 400m lens in 1972 so I have a bit of an advantage in the practice department for holding it steady, but I still have to think about it or I get a load of blurred shots if I get sloppy with my technique!

The Willow Tit shot that I uploaded the day before was similar except the ISO was 800 and I was also leaning against a wall. Any support that you can get - wall, tree-trunk, etc., will help although a bit of sunshine to boost the light levels is the best option. Still 100% cloud cover, here, though I think the forecasters are promising a bit of sun (after it has stopped raining)!

On another of your original points, if you've got the shot about right you won't need too much manipulation in 'Photoshop' or whatever. If it needs a great deal of work then you're probaly better off going out and doing the shot again!

I shoot in 'Adobe RGB' colour which records more colours faithfully but looks a bit 'flat' to start with so I give a touch of extra saturation (just a single-figure number) in 'Hue/saturation.' Otherwise 'cropping,' checking exposure in 'Levels' and 'unsharp mask' are all I mess about with, normally.

senatore said:

I can add to my initial list after spending a day with the camera at Draycote Water.During the day I had six chances to take a pic of a Kestrel.On four attempts I scared the bird away which is fair enough and due to my lack of fieldcraft but the other two occasions my failure to take a pic was down to one : the camera was not switched on and two: the lens cap was on.Of course the bird flew off in both cases.How pathetic is that!Is there no hope for me?

Max.

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These are the kind of things you've got to work through - without admitting it (we've all done it at some point!) - to work out your own way of getting ready for the shot. It's much easier to remember from your own mistakes, 'learning the hard way' and all that!

senatore said:

I can add to my initial list after spending a day with the camera at Draycote Water.During the day I had six chances to take a pic of a Kestrel.On four attempts I scared the bird away which is fair enough and due to my lack of fieldcraft but the other two occasions my failure to take a pic was down to one : the camera was not switched on and two: the lens cap was on.Of course the bird flew off in both cases.How pathetic is that!Is there no hope for me?

Max.

Click to expand...

Max,
Not pathetic at all. You learned 2 valuable lessons, early on. So you probably won't be caught with your camera off again (turn it off only when you go back inside or into the car) and you'll probably leave your lenshood attached and the lenscap in your pocket, while the camera is on. I don't know about you, but I learn better from making mistakes. Granted, these were pretty basic errors. But at this level, if you aren't making mistakes, you're probably not challenging yourself

I think there's hope for you

Steve

senatore said:

I can add to my initial list after spending a day with the camera at Draycote Water.During the day I had six chances to take a pic of a Kestrel.On four attempts I scared the bird away which is fair enough and due to my lack of fieldcraft but the other two occasions my failure to take a pic was down to one : the camera was not switched on and two: the lens cap was on.Of course the bird flew off in both cases.How pathetic is that!Is there no hope for me?

Max.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the laughs, Max - I really sympathize with you. Surely there is hope, and believe me, you are not alone with your experiences. I don't know if this helps or makes you feel worse, but what in my opinion separates great nature photographers from us amateurs are not-so-easily-achievable things like these (in addition to those 10k£€$ lenses):

1) Knowledge: they know exactly the territories, branches and trees on which those kestrels etc. perch. They know the shooting angles, design the lighting conditions etc. After arranging all that, shooting the picture is not such a big deal - like it is for us. But that comes at a price...
2) Patience: if you are ready/willing/able to stay alone in a hide for more than 2h (days, weeks...) to maybe, but unlikely, see a glimpse of a [insert a species], well... good for you :t:
3) Time: as much as I enjoy birdwatching I have to earn my living otherwise. Because I still want to enjoy birdwatching, I prefer to use my limited time for something else than developing my knowledge and patience in bird photography.
4) Skill: this is maybe the easiest part for us to learn just by practising. The fraction of a second you can save by focusing faster or keeping the bird better in the viewfinder (etc.) can make a big difference (a bird vs. no birds in the picture ).

I wish you best of luck with your pursuit of better bird photography and I am sure you will continue to have great fun with it.

Ilkka

senatore said:

Only very recently got a Canon 350D and Sigma 170-500 lens and my initial observations on using them are:-

* You need to learn a new language to understand how to use them eg. mirror lock,noise reduction,predictive AF and lens creep (this last one could be wrong as it sounds more like a disease that effects men)

* Taking good pics is not the only skill you have to learn you also have to master the mysterious world of photo editing.

* As I was warned on BF even with a 500 lens you have to get within an arms lentgth of a small bird to get a good pic.

* Birds will move off the moment you,ve got them in your viewfinder.

* Handhoding a 500 lens steady is impossible for humans.Anyone that achieves this is an alien.This is the main alien identification test done by MI 5.

* Anyone that gets a sharp and detailed pic of a bird is using a camera and lens costing at least £10,000.

*You need bright conditions to get a decent pic but the moment you receive your camera/lens from the dealer the weather will be dull for day after day.

* According to everyone you meet after you have bought your camera and lens you have missed a better deal elsewhere or even worse you've bought the wrong kit.

Have I missed anything?I am sure I have because what do I know about this fascinating world of DSLR photography.

Max.

Click to expand...

I also have recently purchased a Sigma 170-500mm DG lens, to go with my Canon 350D camera. This is my first long telephoto lens, as my main photography is landscape and photographing the dogs. I now have to learn to photograph birds. As the weather has been very dull (1/100th at f8 ISO 800 at the moment) for the last two weeks I haven’t been able to photograph any birds, so have been testing the lens and comparing it at the lower zoom range with lenses from my Canon film days.
Some interesting results. The Sigma lens at 200mm and 300mm at both f5.6 and f11 outperformed my Canon 100mm-300mm f4.5/5.6 USM lens at the same focal lengths and apertures. Though this Canon lens dates from 1990, it has only just been discontinued and has a better performance than the later and cheaper 75m-300mm USM lens. The real surprise came when I tested it against the Canon 70mm-200mm f4 L lens. At 200mm the Sigma lens outperformed the Canon lens at both f5.6 and f11; using the Canon lens with a 1.4 extender at 280mm the Canon lens surprisingly out performed the Sigma lens at f5.6, but was itself outperformed at f11. Not having any longer focus lenses I was not able to compare its performance between 300mm and 500mm. However what I did was to compare images taken with the Sigma lens at 300mm, 400mm and 500mm, filling the frame each time by altering the distance between the camera and subject. At 500mm the photo at f11 was sharper than the one taken at f6.3, and the photo taken at 400mm at f5.6 was sharper than 500mm at f.6.3. However 500mm at f11 was sharper than 400mm at f11. At 300mm no images either at f5.6or f11 where sharper than the corresponding shots at 400mm and 500mm. I haven’t noticed any colour fringing, and have not tested it for distortion.

In summary I am most impressed with this lens, the real surprise being that it could beat a Canon L lens at 200mm. The weakest point seems to be around 300mm. At 500mm as long as a small aperture is used it is better than taking a shot at 400mm and enlarging.

Once the weather improves I hope to be out trying to use the lens for what I purchased it for. I know it’s cheating but I attach two photos, of a Border Fine Arts Great Tit,one taken at 400mm f5.6 and the other at 500mm f5.6 at 1/60 at ISO800.

http://www.baillieswellsborderterriers.co.uk

Testing of the Sigma 170-500/APO

In summary I am most impressed with this lens, the real surprise being that it could beat a Canon L lens at 200mm. The weakest point seems to be around 300mm. At 500mm as long as a small aperture is used it is better than taking a shot at 400mm and enlarging.

Very nice testing and shows that this lens can do good work. I was interested in the results at f11 as I hadn't used mine at that aperture. I'll test mine out on my new D2x soon and publish the results.Neil.

Adey Baker said:

ISO 400, Shutter speed 1/200th, aperture F5.6. I was using 'aperture-priority (av)' exposure mode with 1/3rd stop under-exposure dialed in.

Hand-held - sorry about that - I got my first 400m lens in 1972 so I have a bit of an advantage in the practice department for holding it steady, but I still have to think about it or I get a load of blurred shots if I get sloppy with my technique!

The Willow Tit shot that I uploaded the day before was similar except the ISO was 800 and I was also leaning against a wall. Any support that you can get - wall, tree-trunk, etc., will help although a bit of sunshine to boost the light levels is the best option. Still 100% cloud cover, here, though I think the forecasters are promising a bit of sun (after it has stopped raining)!

On another of your original points, if you've got the shot about right you won't need too much manipulation in 'Photoshop' or whatever. If it needs a great deal of work then you're probaly better off going out and doing the shot again!

I shoot in 'Adobe RGB' colour which records more colours faithfully but looks a bit 'flat' to start with so I give a touch of extra saturation (just a single-figure number) in 'Hue/saturation.' Otherwise 'cropping,' checking exposure in 'Levels' and 'unsharp mask' are all I mess about with, normally.

Click to expand...

Hi Adey,
Thanks for the info on that shot.Handheld I'm impressed.Have you got bionic arms?
I've yet to understand "1/3rd.stop under exposure" adjustment let alone use it.Still lots to learn!

Max.

senatore said:

Hi Adey,
Thanks for the info on that shot.Handheld I'm impressed.Have you got bionic arms?


Max.

Click to expand...

Wish I had - as I said in the second paragraph of that post, if I get a bit sloppy with technique I can soon get a load of blurred shots. That's exactly what I did this morning - OK, I got some good ones, but dazzled by the unfamiliar sunshine I tried out ISO100 and the shutter speeds just weren't fast enough for most of my shots

Senator check out my gallery you will see lots of photo's which where hand-held with the same set-up as yourself. It can be done and I am not superwoman I am on only small.http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/7407
Its learning the technique in which you hold the lens that's important and getting used to the camera and where all the functions are in a hurry. I have mine permanently on AV and know exactly where the exposer compensation button is, so if I am taking a photo of a bird with flat background like the floor I minus the compensation by about 1/2 to 1 stop. If I suddenly see something in the air with a bright sky background I can quickly press the button and turn the wheel to go to + 1 or 2 stops. The more I play with the setting the easier it gets.

Saphire said:

Senator check out my gallery you will see lots of photo's which where hand-held with the same set-up as yourself. It can be done and I am not superwoman I am on only small.http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/7407
Its learning the technique in which you hold the lens that's important and getting used to the camera and where all the functions are in a hurry. I have mine permanently on AV and know exactly where the exposer compensation button is, so if I am taking a photo of a bird with flat background like the floor I minus the compensation by about 1/2 to 1 stop. If I suddenly see something in the air with a bright sky background I can quickly press the button and turn the wheel to go to + 1 or 2 stops. The more I play with the setting the easier it gets.

Click to expand...

Hi Saphire,
Very impressive pics.Handheld at those speeds WOW!!!! I think I must have very weak and shakey arms.

Max.

At long last the sun came out here.The first time since I bought the camera and that's 14 days ago.In the afternoon I dashed round my usual countrysde circuit and would you believe it I did'nt take one shot as there were no birds about.Ah Well !!! I shall try again today.

Max.

Digital slr photography

senatore said:

Only very recently got a Canon 350D and Sigma 170-500 lens and my initial observations on using them are:-

* You need to learn a new language to understand how to use them eg. mirror lock,noise reduction,predictive AF and lens creep (this last one could be wrong as it sounds more like a disease that effects men)

* Taking good pics is not the only skill you have to learn you also have to master the mysterious world of photo editing.

* As I was warned on BF even with a 500 lens you have to get within an arms lentgth of a small bird to get a good pic.

* Birds will move off the moment you,ve got them in your viewfinder.

* Handhoding a 500 lens steady is impossible for humans.Anyone that achieves this is an alien.This is the main alien identification test done by MI 5.

* Anyone that gets a sharp and detailed pic of a bird is using a camera and lens costing at least £10,000.

*You need bright conditions to get a decent pic but the moment you receive your camera/lens from the dealer the weather will be dull for day after day.

* According to everyone you meet after you have bought your camera and lens you have missed a better deal elsewhere or even worse you've bought the wrong kit.

Have I missed anything?I am sure I have because what do I know about this fascinating world of DSLR photography.

Max.

Click to expand...

Max,
Much of what you say is correct, but I have achieved excellent handheld results with my Konica Minolta 7D slr with image stabilization built into the body. It's the only slr manufacturer with it. I use a Sigma 400mm f5.6 APO lens (which becomes a 600mm lens on a DSLR) with a homemade gunstock.
I set the ISO to 400 and can shoot between 1/500 and 1/2000 sec.depending on light. The image stabilization allows you to gain the equivalent of 2 f stops or quadruple your shutter speed. I usually stop down to f8 or f11 to get better image quality and depth of field. In daylight, camera shake is just not a factor. Maybe a more expensive lens would produce better results, but I have been very pleased with this setup and so have others who have seen my slide shows.
Ron