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?Whinchat Today in Gloucestershire (1 Viewer)

I mean either - in the context of birding, Mark, the spelling is interchangeable and different spellings are in common usage in the birding community - thought to derive from US military use: General Impression of Shape and Size, or from German 'Gestalt'

LOL! :clap: Nice one Deborah. Just goes to prove the point that even those who think they know everything actually still have a lot to learn.
 
Hi Alan.

I read some of the comments put on here by people who clearly think they have a right to slag of begginers. Don't worry about what they say just as long as you enjoy your birds. It is clear on this forum that there are lots of people who don't.
 
If I'm honest about it, I have to admit that I chuckled in disbelief that anyone could mistake a perfectly normal Reed Bunting for a Whinchat. But then it's a very long time since I started this birding lark (50-ish years if you include my earliest pre-binoculars attempts). And do you know something that us old hands too easily forget? It's this - if you're a beginner you're allowed to make honest errors. Making a howler isn't a capital offence. Bird ID isn't something that's hard wired into our brains. Yes, it might be wiser to spend more time learning how to identify birds. It could be advantageous to learn how to look at them too and how to 'decode' illustrations. But that too is something to be learnt. Yup beginners are allowed to make mistakes - in fact we all are,
John
 
Going back to the bird q and a discussion thread si and bobtag mentioned (I'll mention it again!-
(http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=100785)

Since this seems to be the faster moving thread, and the recent exchanges are proving the point even more, I'll put some more definitive thoughts down here;

(and wrt this thread, I don't think Alan is one of those lazy birders referred to by some, but someone who became stumped and came onto BF for assistance as well they should. The responses that came were either a) borne of frustration after the number of basic requests for id help as a FIRST resort b) just plain sarky comments from peeps who are like that anyway. Hence the following 'discussion'. No smoke without fire . . . .)

The bird q and a thread gets a LOT of new threads started (50 a day?- a lot more than any other I think) It is VERY CROWDED, and threads can sink quite quickly out of sight. A lot of these are bird id requests of 'commoner' species which are fairly straightforward for someone with more experience or a different perspective to help with. . . and it is great that people will help. I reckon these should be divided up geographically, so there should be a 'What's that Bird?' Forum for id help, divided into Europe, North America, and Rest of World. Another section would be entitled something like; 'Bird id discussion- Tricky species' (something like that, you get my drift tho).

The 'what's that bird?' sections would be for novices, beginners, holidaymakers, relatively inexperienced birders or birders getting stumped etc etc who wanted help with their id, (and their id skills). Responses would be helpful and not sarky, as everyone should know what they're getting into . . .

The tricky species section would involve the inevitable redpolls I guess, but all other rarer and trickier species (like the recent Intermediate Egret, The trickier gulls). Discussions of abraded outer tertials on Snowy Plovers, whatever. ( More for serious birders to get help and discuss such things.)

A further section 'Troubled Tertials' similar to 'Ruffled Feathers' should also be provided somewhere or another for those who want to swear at each other and diss any and anything they don't like . . . . members only.


So in Bird Id section-
1)What's that bird?-
a)Europe/ b)N America/ c)Rest of World.

2)Tricky id help section/ Birding Id frontiers section

And somewhere else (near the rare bird thread? or Ruffled feathers?)-
3)An informal section for the 'less formalised' to rant on about stuff relating to their birding, or to take an off topic sidetrack further on without disturbing the original thread further. . . (RF doesn't seem to get used conversationally like this)

Like in the other post I mentioned, Sticky at the head of the 'What's that bird?' section- RULES OF ENGAGEMENT- all respondents to give clues, where appropriate as to a birds id, but definately give REASONs and EXPLANATIONS in any case.

And a ticking off method so a thread can be identified when it has served its purpose- a Y for bird successfully id'ed, a X or ? for no id yet or consensus not reached.

Do peeps think something like this ain't so bad an idea- surely something has to change/evolve- This forum is getting cluttered and things will hardly get better. . . .Politeness can of course always be enforced, but newbies shouldn't have to risk ridicule, not should those who want to discuss more complex id conundrums find they don't as there is such a weight of basic id requests from around the globe that like minds do not meet.

Discussions on eg winter plumage Oriental Pratincoles and Intermediate Egrets in Europe should be in the right place if BF is to be of any use, equally as much as a new birder should get help with a juvenile robin they saw in the park or a holidaymaker with a Trogon they saw in the jungle whilst on a cruise.

Essay over. Please vote now!
 
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I'm sure there are some people who come to this site who aren't birders, do not own a field guide and have no interest in learning how to identify birds, that's their perogative. They may have just seen a funny looking bird whilst out walking or at the bottom of the garden and came here hoping someone would be kind enough to tell them what they saw, they don't want to be talked down to by some tw@t who doesn't even know what month it is!

Maybe, just maybe, a pleasant welcome and some helpful advice may start an interest in birds/nature that may last the rest of their lives and with the state of the planet at this moment, every new person turned on to nature has got to be a good thing.

Next time you are going to leave a snotty comment, just think to yourself, if I was talking to this person face to face how would I respond, would I be helpful or come out with some sarcastic comment that may see me spending the next five minutes trying to locate my teeth?

sorry for the rant, but some people really, really annoy me.

Paul
 
......Do peeps think something like this ain't so bad an idea- surely something has to change/evolve- This forum is getting cluttered and things will hardly get better. . . .Politeness can of course always be enforced, but newbies shouldn't have to risk ridicule, not should those who want to discuss more complex id conundrums find they don't as there is such a weight of basic id requests from around the globe that like minds do not meet.

Discussions on eg winter plumage Oriental Pratincoles and Intermediate Egrets in Europe should be in the right place if BF is to be of any use, equally as much as a new birder should get help with a juvenile robin they saw in the park or a holidaymaker with a Trogon they saw in the jungle whilst on a cruise....

I think it's a generally good idea. I don't think it would completely solve the problem though, because beginners usually think that they have found a rarity which is very difficult to identify. It often doesn't seem to occur to them that actually it might be one of the commonest birds in Britain. So I think you would still get beginners posting common birds to the "Birding Id frontiers section".

I guess it might turn out similar to the Surfbirds Rarity photo section, where the majority of the stuff really is rare, but the rest is at best uncommon.

The danger is, if a newbie accidently posts a female Chaffinch to the "Birding Id frontiers section", he's likely to get an even more negative response than he does with the present setup.

Still, got to be worth a try I suppose.
 
I can't really understand why some people get annoyed by beginners posting easy birds. I must admit that i sometimes wonder when a member of 1000 postings plus asks what a dunnock looks like, but then thats my problem, not theirs. I never have to reply to these postings because nine times out of ten someone has already replied with the correct answer, and the thread is effectively closed (although many folks still insist on "seventhing" an answer!) If they havn't, i just click on a gull thread and get the same feeling of dread that newbies get when they photograph a reed bunting.

As for splitting the Bird ID forum, well i think it will cause more problems than it will solve. There are too many prerequisites of prior knowledge to make it work effectively. I like not really knowing what i'm going to get when i open a thread, although i agree that a location at least should be in the thread title. I do however, like the idea of ticking off a thread when a conclusion has been reached. I have no idea how this could work in practice, as i might be completely sure of an answer on something that someone else disagrees with. There are plenty of examples of "its a dunnock" posted right in the middle of a bunting thread for arguments sake, so what happens there? Do we have a system whereby if 95% of thread contributors agree on the outcome, then the thread is ticked? Perhaps a colour coded star next to the thread could indicate solved, not solved or controversial.
 
From the wartime military term GISS..... General Impression, Size and Shape
I think the porn word is actually jism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizz

Don't trust everything you read on wikipedia. The first recorded use of the term 'jizz' was in 'Bird Life at Home and Abroad' (1927) by T.A.Coward. I can't find the exact passage, but as i recall the term was used by an Irish countryman to explain how he recognised a bird. I understand that that "G.I.S.S." is an American term and that it only came into wide use in WWII,

John
 
People people calm down,a bit of rib tickling never hurt anybody did it.Anyway at least u can use a camera.A dam fine house sparrow that one!Merry christmas.

3 pages for what could have been answered in one post. B :)

Whinchat?are u on drugs!

Of course he's not on drugs otherwise it would have looked like this...I would imagine. :t:
 

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Don't trust everything you read on wikipedia. The first recorded use of the term 'jizz' was in 'Bird Life at Home and Abroad' (1927) by T.A.Coward. I can't find the exact passage, but as i recall the term was used by an Irish countryman to explain how he recognised a bird. I understand that that "G.I.S.S." is an American term and that it only came into wide use in WWII,

John


I added the link just as back up to the explaination; However I recall GISS being used when I was in the Air training corps learning aircraft ID, by a Mr Pettigrew, it was according to him a Royal Observer Corps term. There are records of it dating to WW1 but no written records before Thomas Cowards book 1927.
 
Hi All,

New threads that are potentially challenging and/or novel topics in bird identification can be labeled more carefully than they have at times. A thread titled "weird warbler in Sussex" could be anything. Perhaps we simply need to come up with some agreed upon, "this is going to knock your socks off" phrase, that we can incorporate into any title which we feel is worthy of having the greatest minds in the birding community weighing in on. So rather than "weird warbler in Sussex" we could have "ID Conundrum: odd first-winter Sylvia warbler in Sussex." The language itself implies some level of understanding of ageing and determination of which genus is involved. "Tricky wader" becomes "ID conundrum:Weird Tringa showing features of Lesser Yellowlegs", etc. Really challenging threads do not often get lost in the depths of the Bird ID Q & A, though some do get ignored because no one in brave enough to take a stab at them.

On top of that, we could have our moderator Jane tag any developing threads that might start out as "what is this bird in my garden?", but quickly develop into "is this a Bicknell's Thrush or a Gray-cheeked Thrush in the garden?" by simply adding the words ID Conundrum to the title. If you are smart enough to find your way around a field guide, then I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out which threads are getting all of the views and replies.

Hopefully, moving toward isolating the trickier threads will alleviate any issues for the vocal minority, allowing them to more quickly find and contribute to the threads that are meaningful for them. In addition, it will hopefully have the further benefit for the rest of us of ridding the Bird ID Q & A of all the snarky, mean-spirited, haughty remarks that are given simply to tickle a rib or two. All of that verbal diarrhea can find its happy place in your PM inboxes.

Chris
 
your missing the point, these photos show a black blob on a gorse bush, the first photos clearly showed a reed bunting.

ps that looks more like Blackthorn or Hawthorn to me, from the high quality photo !!

Mark. Do you mean, "You're missing the point."?! Actually, these photos clearly show a Reed bunting. Can't you tell?!
(It's OK folks, I can take the p*ss cos I know him.) (His rules!)
P.S. Nice Id. on the bush btw!

Malc, I don't get your ref. - what you talkin' 'bout?
 
We've been here before so many times. Please can this thread be closed before people really start falling out?

Interesting thought about the p0rn version of jizz though.

Sean
 
Two simple suggestions -

1. Once an ID has been resolved, the thread is marked "Identified" in the same way that "for sale" items are marked as "now sold";

2. Comments within the id forum are restricted to those related to the bird itself. If anyone wants to make a non id-related comment they start a separate thread in Ruffled Feathers with a link to the id thread.

..just a thought..

Edit - could this be the only thread on BF ever to mention jism? Bound to come to a sticky end.....
 
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