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Flava wag' racial ID thoughts please (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CJW
- Start date
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Think its a flava with a slightly white throat Chris, its not smart enough for iberiae though I have seen a few beema-type in Cheshire - I assume from the Blue-head/yellow liasions that are regular
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Desertbirder
Jonathan Meyrav
This bird overall appearance is of a flava wag, but it definately shows a white throat patch that contrasts with the yellow breast. The broad supercilium (especially behind the eye) together with the white throat patch is good for the Spanish ssp iberiae. I have seen "Spanish" Yellow Wags and they tend to show crisp pale edged tertials as well, as seen on your image. Because of the quality of the image it is hard to say if their is contrast between the ear coverts patch and the colour of the cap. What I can safely say is that this does not look like a typical C Europe flava wag...
Jonathan Meyrav
Jonathan Meyrav
CJW
Hit-and-run WUM
I went there expecting to see a Blue-headed flava but was immediately struck by the white throat patch. It was a bit flighty and didn't pose for longer than a couple of seconds at a time, but I really didn't think it was a flava - I was certainly leaning towards Spanish myself.
edenwatcher
Well-known member
Was the head as grey as it appears in the photos? The colour doesn't look right for flava but have no experience of iberiae.CJW said:
Rob
Hi Chris,
In my opinion,this is not an iberiae,despite the presence of a pale throat,and is most likely a slightly odd flava.Alstrom and Mild(2003) caution against the identification of iberiae outside of the usual range,and I'd expect a bird of that subspecies to show a whiter throat which was more cleanly demarcated from the yellow breast and also more contrastingly dark ear coverts.
Harry
In my opinion,this is not an iberiae,despite the presence of a pale throat,and is most likely a slightly odd flava.Alstrom and Mild(2003) caution against the identification of iberiae outside of the usual range,and I'd expect a bird of that subspecies to show a whiter throat which was more cleanly demarcated from the yellow breast and also more contrastingly dark ear coverts.
Harry
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Harry,Harry Hussey said:
Regarding another YWag I saw a few years ago - what do they say about cinereocapilla? If one turned up in a fall of Scandinavian birds (including two M. f. thunbergi), would they be suggesting genuine Italian vagrant, or an aberrant thunbergi?
Michael
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Michael Frankis
conehead
Is a white throat (rather than yellow) a reliable racial identification character in Yellow Wags?
My suspicions are that it isn't. But I would like to know more of what Alström & Mild say about this generally, it may well help with yours too
Michael
My suspicions are that it isn't. But I would like to know more of what Alström & Mild say about this generally, it may well help with yours too
Michael
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Hi all,
As far as I remember(and this IS relevant to Chris's bird),ANY race of Yellow Wagtail can show a white/whitish throat on occasion,and this would also lead to a putative cinereocapilla having an element of doubt attached to it,particularly if it turned up with undisputed thunbergi....
Harry
As far as I remember(and this IS relevant to Chris's bird),ANY race of Yellow Wagtail can show a white/whitish throat on occasion,and this would also lead to a putative cinereocapilla having an element of doubt attached to it,particularly if it turned up with undisputed thunbergi....
Harry
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Jane Turner
Well-known member
I had to rush off to work withing seconds of seeing this message....and now Harry has said it all.
Two pics..
http://www.arthurgrosset.com/europebirds/photos/motfla 190.jpg
This is probably a Spnish - but out of range and might be a flava integrade.... but look at how sharp the throat demarcation is and how dark the lores are.
This on the other hand is just a white-throated flava
Two pics..
http://www.arthurgrosset.com/europebirds/photos/motfla 190.jpg
This is probably a Spnish - but out of range and might be a flava integrade.... but look at how sharp the throat demarcation is and how dark the lores are.
This on the other hand is just a white-throated flava
Attachments
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Ok.. then here are two with white or whitish fore-supers.. and one with a whitish throat...
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/pictures/111/DSCN2632A.jpg
http://home.clara.net/ammodytes/bluehead0401.jpg
I think you'll have to live with a large degree of uncertainty on this Chris... and accept that its not a classic Spanish.... at least its not a Chiffer!
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/pictures/111/DSCN2632A.jpg
http://home.clara.net/ammodytes/bluehead0401.jpg
I think you'll have to live with a large degree of uncertainty on this Chris... and accept that its not a classic Spanish.... at least its not a Chiffer!
alan_rymer
Well-known member
But you did get some decent photo's. I've found tht Yellow Wags are a pig to photograph, very flighty and always on the moveCJW said:
Well done!
Edward woodwood
Member
Hi folks
although i have field experience of all the mentioned taxa I dont think it counts for much I'm afraid. Pretty sure it's not iberiae but after that....the head is an unusual shade for flava but there's no hint of the much darker ear covs of iberiae or cinereocapilla which (regarding separation from thunbergi )in my field experience often show a super too. It is quite odd for a flava but then again you do get em..... on the other hand I have seen an amazing amount of weird wags in northern Greece.....I gave up sketching them as they were so varied it was becoming a pointless exercise.....there was obviously a lot of mixing going on. This may just be a white-throated flava which do occur as Jane had said. We were faced with an odd wag recently but luckily it was a thunbergi and not too tricky!
although i have field experience of all the mentioned taxa I dont think it counts for much I'm afraid. Pretty sure it's not iberiae but after that....the head is an unusual shade for flava but there's no hint of the much darker ear covs of iberiae or cinereocapilla which (regarding separation from thunbergi )in my field experience often show a super too. It is quite odd for a flava but then again you do get em..... on the other hand I have seen an amazing amount of weird wags in northern Greece.....I gave up sketching them as they were so varied it was becoming a pointless exercise.....there was obviously a lot of mixing going on. This may just be a white-throated flava which do occur as Jane had said. We were faced with an odd wag recently but luckily it was a thunbergi and not too tricky!
Birdspotter
Well-known member
Beware of 1st summer bird Thunbergi that can show a white throat.
Not sure about the super though !
My friends and I were caught out by such a bird last spring in Lothian.
It showed what we thought was a white throat that was sharply demarcated from the upper breast anda head pattern that looked very similar to Ashy headed (Cinereocapilla) ,however this theory was blown out of the water by much closer shots showing that the yellow did indeed encroach the throat by way of the malar stripes.
The dark ear covert mask was also thought to be wrong for Cinereocapilla.
For further info on this bird see Birding Scotland 6 vol 3
Not sure about the super though !
My friends and I were caught out by such a bird last spring in Lothian.
It showed what we thought was a white throat that was sharply demarcated from the upper breast anda head pattern that looked very similar to Ashy headed (Cinereocapilla) ,however this theory was blown out of the water by much closer shots showing that the yellow did indeed encroach the throat by way of the malar stripes.
The dark ear covert mask was also thought to be wrong for Cinereocapilla.
For further info on this bird see Birding Scotland 6 vol 3
