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Marsh Reed? (1 Viewer)

alsirhan

birdwatcher in Kuwait
Marsh or Reed Warbler?

This bird was photographed in Kuwait on 21st August 2005.
Is it a Marsh Warbler? Would like to hear you opinion.

Alsirhan
 

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Aren't the undertail coverts a bit long for a hippo Darrell? I also get the impression that the tail tip is rounded (hard to be sure though).

I would think it looks quite good for Marsh, especially with such prominent pale tips to the primaries, but I'm not much cop on these.
 
Andrew Whitehouse said:
Aren't the undertail coverts a bit long for a hippo Darrell? I also get the impression that the tail tip is rounded (hard to be sure though).

I would think it looks quite good for Marsh, especially with such prominent pale tips to the primaries, but I'm not much cop on these.

Yeah - the bill is a bit short for Olivacious isn't it.

It still has that hippo look about it with the peaked crown and feint yellow wash. I'm off to dig out a few references.

DArrell
 
Here is another photo!
It shows a red mouth rather than yellow of Olivaceous. It also shows a short outer tail feather i.e rounded tail.

Alsirhan
 

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This is what BWP has to say about Marsh Warbler. (bits that don't fit are highlighted in italics.) Vol Vl p172-173

By summer, wear removes pale bright tinge above and below so that whole bird becomes duller and greyer, though often still more olivaceous and much more earth-brown on rump than western A. scipaceus scirpaceus. Following autumn moult plumage again becomes washed with green and olive but less vividly so than in spring.

Within unstreaked Acrocephalus, A. palustris is pumpest, heaviest and longest-winged, with (1) typically rather short, wide-based bill...(2) rather domed crown, typically lacking as low a forehead as A. scirpaceus and A. dumetorum and thus tending to enhance short-billed appearance, (3) seemingly fuller chin and throat enhancing round-headed appearance, (4) rather long wings with folded wing point at least three quarter length of exposed tertials, displaying fully (due to bright feather fringes) 8-9 primary tips (with noticably even spacing indicative of least round shape within unstreaked Acrocephalus) and extending to end of, or even beyond, upper tail-coverts, (5) pear-shaped or pot bellied body which gives impression of bird carrying most weight lower than other Acrocephalus and (6) long full under tail-coverts, cloaking three quarters of tail more obviously than A. dumetorum. In addition, rather less agile or energetic than A. scirpaceus with rather upright carriage both at rest and on the move, with tail held down (and rarely above the wing points),

Darrell
 
Marsh warbler is very good option, because
1. bird has not rufous in the rump
2. at least secondaries has greenish-olive fringes
3. short and stout bill. pale lower mandible
4. Thin eyering is creamy
5. no rufous in the supercilium
6. top of tertials 'overdraw' secondaries
7. dark brown tail

I'll be back later !
 
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The distance between tips of tertials are the same in Olivaceous warbler, so this bird has not that feature ! Also OW has darker lore. Nostril is also quite rounded, so it refers to MW also.
 
Here is a photograph of the Eastern Olivaceous Warbler Hippolais pallida photographed on 2nd August 2005 (to compare with!)

Alsirhan
 

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alsirhan said:
Here is a photograph of the Eastern Olivaceous Warbler Hippolais pallida photographed on 2nd August 2005 (to compare with!)

Alsirhan

This seems to be individual, which have not the feature (same distance between tips of tertials) mentioned by Svensson. That feature is one, which OW can differ from Upcher's W (Shirihai 1987), but also Svensson mention, that possibility to meet aberrant individual. So now we can discuss about this Hippo, does it Olivaceous or Upcher's ?
 
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hannu said:
This seems to be individual, which have not the feature (same distance between tips of tertials) mentioned by Svensson. That feature is one, which OW can differ from Upcher's W (Shirihai 1987), but also Svensson mention, that possibility to meet aberrant individual. So now we can discuss about this Hippo, does it Olivaceous or Upcher's ?

Well.. I just wanted to show the general appearance of Olivaceous (Upcher's W?) we'll leave the discusstion of Olivaceous/Upcher's Warbler to a different post hopefully!

Alsirhan
 
alsirhan said:
Here is another photo!
It shows a red mouth rather than yellow of Olivaceous. It also shows a short outer tail feather i.e rounded tail.

Alsirhan

That bill looks very Hippo to me.. I need more time than I have though
 
Back to the first case,

bird has p3 wing point, p4 appr. 0,5-1mm shorter, p5 appr. 4-5mm shorter,...This kind of wing formula is suitable both Reed W and Marsh W.

Dark alula with narrow pale margin is suitable both of species (Reed & Marsh).

The colour of legs is more pale reddish brown than bluish grey/brown, which refers also to Marsh. If we compare the colour of legs in those individuals Alsirhan's former thread (Is this European Reed Warbler?), those were more darker than this individual,...

also this individual seems to disappear margin of tertial (at least longest, s7) near the top of tertial.
 
Guess my day to put my foot in my mouth !
Think this is a Thick-billed Warbler (Acrocepahlus aedon) - don't know if it occurs in the area though, so this is stretching things. But, a yuhina like head is how I describe a Thick-billed in the field and this bird shows that feature.
Cheers!
sumit
 
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