james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
Bob,
Nice review, thanks for sharing.
Nice review, thanks for sharing.
-
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Zeiss Terra ED: First Look (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ceasar
- Start date
These sound as though they might well be the next step for me. Years ago I had Swift Audubons... I think they were 8 x 42 and they were big, good, but too heavy. I gave them to my naturalist pal. I've been using some Swift Osprey 7.5 x 42...rubberized binoculars that I gave my husband back in the mid 1980s. I'd like something better but am not ready to put down $1000 plus, thus I'm thinking these new Zeiss binoculars might be a good pair to try.
Thank you ceasar for your first impressions and my thanks to everyone else who has weighed in, as well.
Thank you ceasar for your first impressions and my thanks to everyone else who has weighed in, as well.
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NDhunter
Experienced observer
Chosen:
You have added nothing to this thread, and I am wondering why you have
posted.
Jerry
RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
Maybe I misunderstood as I associate the term "reference standard" to mean the best MEASURED optics, not the most hyped.
"Reference Standard" certainly should not apply to this train wreck.
Not surprising to anyone who knows how to MEASURE optics, given it was spawned from bad stock as reviewed here and here.
Last time I was in Manhattan I went to Cameraland NY specifically to check out the ZR to see for myself what all the fuss was about. Made poor Neil go fetch an 8x43ED out of the stock room and carefully unwrap it for me. Took me ~15secs to know all I needed to know and handed it back while apologizing for wasting 5min and 15sec of his time.
"Reference Standard" certainly should not apply to this train wreck.
Not surprising to anyone who knows how to MEASURE optics, given it was spawned from bad stock as reviewed here and here.
Last time I was in Manhattan I went to Cameraland NY specifically to check out the ZR to see for myself what all the fuss was about. Made poor Neil go fetch an 8x43ED out of the stock room and carefully unwrap it for me. Took me ~15secs to know all I needed to know and handed it back while apologizing for wasting 5min and 15sec of his time.
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The Zen-Ray ED3s (7, 8, 10x) do seem to be something of a ref. std. at that price level, when considering prices in the USA, going mostly by what I read in BF but also somewhat my own experience, and a friend's who has looked through many more of the best models. Recently it was discussed here why they're not mentioned more often, and more than one person opined it's because it is generally accepted that they are such.
Like CJ seems to have, I too thought that most who write here, are in the USA and have handled a lot of bins will be familiar with the ZR ED3s.
As I'm about to send this in I see RJM's. Well, Henry's instrument was in 2011, and several here found ED3s have been improved quite a bit since. RJM, as for ancestry isn't that a bit unfair - or maybe in the larger view even a bit non-PC! |8.| Your own experience - assuming that's ED3 not ED2 - is a bit baffling to me. If even a few others have had such problems with recently produced ED3s maybe it's worth a new thread in the ZR subforum.
Like CJ seems to have, I too thought that most who write here, are in the USA and have handled a lot of bins will be familiar with the ZR ED3s.
As I'm about to send this in I see RJM's. Well, Henry's instrument was in 2011, and several here found ED3s have been improved quite a bit since. RJM, as for ancestry isn't that a bit unfair - or maybe in the larger view even a bit non-PC! |8.| Your own experience - assuming that's ED3 not ED2 - is a bit baffling to me. If even a few others have had such problems with recently produced ED3s maybe it's worth a new thread in the ZR subforum.
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brocknroller
porromaniac
Yes it is real but it will also help to have a narrow, thin, aquiline nose in order to get the most out of it.
Bob
Bob,
You had to go and spoil it for me, didn't you?
I thought you "found the eyecups to be very comfortable"? With a roof, you shouldn't have to narrow the IPD for close focus, so I'm not sure why you said that. Could you please elaborate?
Also, I'm not a fan of LX's "fast and loose" focuser, particularly on the midsized models, which go 0-60 in less than 180*, so that comment threw out a red flag. Does the fast focuser make it too easy to overshoot your target and does it produce a 2-D effect?
The rest of your review sounded very positive, particularly how the reds stand out. Not something I was expecting from a Zeiss. Also, no mention of the rubber tire smell.
<B>
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Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Jerry:
In your own inimitable style, as per usual, your post would seem to add even less to the thread. If nothing else, at least my perfect spelling lifts the grammatical standard of the thread. Your lack of comprehension baffles me, and I really am left wondering why you are wondering. (It's a rhetorical wonder, hence no ?).
It is quite natural to compare the Terra ED to its competitors. Perhaps that point eludes you.
Rick:
As far as the "Reference Standard" kerfuffle, perhaps a better choice of words would have been default choice at this price point (and as Bruce points out - in a "roof prism" binocular). Others may wear the strictly optical resolution crown, but for overall performance, it is "a" competitor, if not arguably "the" competitor. The links you provided certainly show a history of some less than salubrious quality assurance, and that is something the company has to live with. However, the basic spec and performance is good, and there has been much improvement in generational iterations from ED -> ED2 -> ED3. Good examples are great value binoculars for the price, and offer overall performance that you will have to spend many times the price to better.
That somewhat gets down to the crux of the matter - what quality will the particular unit exhibit once it has lobbed with its new owner? In this regard, as well as outright performance, the Terra ED .w-i-l-l. face its competitors, and an outcome .w-i-l-l. ensue. Like Bob, I'll be interested to see how it fares.
I do not wish to derail Bob's thread further with another storm in a HT-cup, so if there's a better choice out there, then perhaps it could be listed in a "$400 Reference Standard Binocular" thread ...... Jerry could even originate it - that would make for some constructive input ......
Chosun :gh:
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RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
Guys, I'm not much for second chances. A company gets one shot and one shot only to sell me a new product. The more I have to pay for a discretionary product/serivce, the more obsessive I become. The best service a company can provide is to sell me something that works so good it never needs repair. But if does, I expect a speedy no-hassle service or replacement upgrade. Throwing an unexpected token "Easter Egg" into the box as a gratuity for my business earns the company extra loyalty brownie points.
But enough about my philosophy, I am keeping my fingers crossed that these new affordable "Designed by Zeiss" optics won't also have Zeiss astigmatic look and feel. I really would like to own a Terra ED 10x42!
But enough about my philosophy, I am keeping my fingers crossed that these new affordable "Designed by Zeiss" optics won't also have Zeiss astigmatic look and feel. I really would like to own a Terra ED 10x42!
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Bob,
You had to go and spoil it for me, didn't you?
With a roof, you shouldn't have to narrow the IPD for close focus, so I'm not sure why you said that. Could you please elaborate?
Also, I'm not a fan of LX's "fast and loose" focuser, particularly on the midsized models, which go 0-60 in less than 180*, so that comment threw out a red flag. Does the fast focuser make it too easy to overshoot your target and does it produce a 2-D effect?
The rest of your review sounded very positive, particularly how the reds stand out. Not something I was expecting from a Zeiss. Also, no mention of the rubber tire smell.
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Hi Brock,
I waited till this morning to respond. I've been out on my deck amidst the pollen using the Terra ED and blinking my eyes.:eek!:
I do find the eye cups comfortable. They are large rubber sleeves covering the metal structure underneath. They could be a bit softer but the eye cups are similar in construction to those on the LX L and the Zeiss rubber covers are thicker than the Nikons. They are also large, 1 and 5/16th inches wide. I use the MOLCET technique as you know and I can place them well under and up against my brow ridge and keep them on axis easily. I can almost put them back into my eye sockets but I do get some blackouts when I do that.
The Terra ED focuses at 5.3" at the dead stop close up position. (The LX L's had about 90º of useless turning before a decent closeup was apparent.) With my 69mm IPD at this distance I get overlap from the objective tubes in my view. A closer IPD would give a larger center view with less overlap. In fact when I squeeze the objective tubes together and hold the binocular about an inch away from my eyes I can see an oval view of an object that is 5.3" away without any overlap. This won't work if I try it with my IPD at 69mm. Maybe that is the way you use this binocular for closeups?
Zeiss measures the IPD range at 57.5mm to 76mm. To use it at any where near 58mm you would need a nose which had a very flat bridge very unlike mine which is high and thin.
As I noted the focus wheel turns 360º and infinity is somewhere around 240º. About 180º is used up in the first 50 feet of the view. I had no problem following small birds through a dense Silver Maple tree just off my deck over this distance. The remaining 60º is easily focused with what amounts to small tweaks. There is just a small tweak from 100' or so out to infinity. Everything looks 3D to me. I see nice depth of field through it.
The focus wheel's speed is not a problem for me and in fact is slower than the 8 x 32 LX L. As I remember almost the entire focal range of that binocular took place over a range of 190º.
As for the rubber tire smell, it has dissipated by now from use in the open air which is a heck of a lot better than the smell that was on my old Minox BD10 x 32BR which hung on for months! The moth ball like smell of the Velour binocular bag should do the same thing too as soon as I expose it to the air.:t:
Bob
Can someone explain me what "Zeiss coating" is?
In the Terra ED manual there are some "patents" that zeiss uses from Bushnell:
US6542302, US6816310, US6906862
I doubt if there is Schott ED glass in this binocular...
In it's price class I can find many other brands who have better FOV and close focus then the Terra ED.
The only thing that Zeiss developed in my opinion was the exterior rubber...
But some people are just blinded by the name and marketing communication.
In the Terra ED manual there are some "patents" that zeiss uses from Bushnell:
US6542302, US6816310, US6906862
I doubt if there is Schott ED glass in this binocular...
In it's price class I can find many other brands who have better FOV and close focus then the Terra ED.
The only thing that Zeiss developed in my opinion was the exterior rubber...
But some people are just blinded by the name and marketing communication.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Thanks, Bob. I'm surprised the eyecups have "full metal jackets" like the LXL, but then, I was also surprised to find that with the 7x50 Foresta, pleasantly surprised because it allowed me to take off the proboscis-pinching, oversized hard rubber eyecups and drop in a pair of slimmer Swaro winged eyecups in the metal housing, fits perfectly. I might have to do the same with the Terra ED if the nose fit isn't good.
I had a little trouble with the 7x36 ED2's hard eyecups at close focus while looking at butterflies and that bin focused down to 4.5 ft. I didn't bother resetting the IPD, a little overlap in the close up image, but not disturbing like some porros at close focus. I don't plan to spend a lot of time looking at butterflies and bugs in the winter.
The depth perception comments are encouraging, however, your perceptions might not agree with mine. For example, you don't see chromatic aberration, or at least not much unless it's really obvious, but except the 7x ED2, I have yet to try a roof that didn't show more of it than my SEs. The 8x30 SLCneu was about the best non-ED bin in regard to CA control. I saw it, but it was minimal, just a thin red or green line off-axis around objects against a high contrast background.
The 8x32 LX showed a Flatland 2-D landscape and a "slice of life" when focusing. The background and foreground seemed a lot closer together than in my porros, and that made fine focusing a challenge, particularly at my usual birding distances. Objects up close and far away were easier to focus on.
The Terra ED's flare resistance is a very positive attribute at this price point. The ED2 was not good with controlling flaring, particularly the first version, but the v. 2.0 with the added baffles was better but still not as good as most of my other bins. The EII w/out the Bushwackers shows flaring in the late afternoon when I'm looking in the direction of the sun. The Bushwackers help, but when the sun is low and I'm looking at birds in the open rather than in my leaf canopy backyard, I'll switch to the 8x32 SE since it's better at handling flaring.
The image sharpness also sounds good, matching your 7x42 FL. But most importantly for RJM and me is the 75% sweet spot with gradual fall off at the edges. I was expecting astigmatism at the edges, but I guess Zeiss reserves that characteristic only for its best bins. :smoke:
Glad to hear the smell dissipated quickly, not like the BO in Seinfeld's Saab.
Brock
brocknroller
porromaniac
I'm just not feeling the love here, Hank. Y?
Are you implying that the Terra EDs are re-badged Chinese clones, and only the smelly rubber armoring is different?
If so, what other Chinese roof is like it?
Brock
Thanks, Bob. I'm surprised the eyecups have "full metal jackets" like the LXL, but then, I was also surprised to find that with the 7x50 Foresta, pleasantly surprised because it allowed me to take off the proboscis-pinching, oversized hard rubber eyecups and drop in a pair of slimmer Swaro winged eyecups in the metal housing, fits perfectly. I might have to do the same with the Terra ED if the nose fit isn't good.
I had a little trouble with the 7x36 ED2's hard eyecups at close focus while looking at butterflies and that bin focused down to 4.5 ft. I didn't bother resetting the IPD, a little overlap in the close up image, but not disturbing like some porros at close focus. I don't plan to spend a lot of time looking at butterflies and bugs in the winter.
The depth perception comments are encouraging, however, your perceptions might not agree with mine. For example, you don't see chromatic aberration, or at least not much unless it's really obvious, but except the 7x ED2, I have yet to try a roof that didn't show more of it than my SEs. The 8x30 SLCneu was about the best non-ED bin in regard to CA control. I saw it, but it was minimal, just a thin red or green line off-axis around objects against a high contrast background.
The 8x32 LX showed a Flatland 2-D landscape and a "slice of life" when focusing. The background and foreground seemed a lot closer together than in my porros, and that made fine focusing a challenge, particularly at my usual birding distances. Objects up close and far away were easier to focus on.
The Terra ED's flare resistance is a very positive attribute at this price point. The ED2 was not good with controlling flaring, particularly the first version, but the v. 2.0 with the added baffles was better but still not as good as most of my other bins. The EII w/out the Bushwackers shows flaring in the late afternoon when I'm looking in the direction of the sun. The Bushwackers help, but when the sun is low and I'm looking at birds in the open rather than in my leaf canopy backyard, I'll switch to the 8x32 SE since it's better at handling flaring.
The image sharpness also sounds good, matching your 7x42 FL. But most importantly for RJM and me is the 75% sweet spot with gradual fall off at the edges. I was expecting astigmatism at the edges, but I guess Zeiss reserves that characteristic only for its best bins. :smoke:
Glad to hear the smell dissipated quickly, not like the BO in Seinfeld's Saab.
Brock
Well, the structure of the eye cups is hard and a dense black. They feel like the same stuff as the ocular tubes which also are a dense black and when I tap them with a metal knife blade they sound like metal. Whatever they are they are pretty solid. They could take a lighter and thinner cover but I don't see how that would make them more comfortable and in addition to being over an inch and a half wide they are 11/16th of an inch long. You will have to find winged eye cups that meet those specs.
Bob
Zeiss specifically states on it's web site that the Terra ED "combines Schott ED glass with Zeiss MC coating ........ ."
http://sportsoptics.zeiss.com/nature/en_us/binoculars/conquest-hd-binoculars.html
As for close focus, the Terra ED's is 5'3". I suspect that there won't be very many 8 x 42's at any price that can focus that close.
What is Zeiss coating? The same question has often been asked here about Swarovski's coatings and Leica's. The answer is that all major binocular manufacturers have their own proprietary coatings.
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brocknroller
porromaniac
So you're not actually sure if there is a metal housing underneath the eyecups? Easy way to tell, pull off the cups! That's how I found out about the Vixens. It was actually by accident. I was having major problems with image blackouts so I put my pair of Field Optics light shields on the eyecups and while that put my eyes farther back from the lenses, the thick rubber bands over the wide eyecups left almost no nose room, so I pulled off the light shields and with tthem off came the Vixen rubber eyecups.
This also exposed the brass screws on the metal eyecup housing. The right eyecup was loose, and the loose screws on that metal housing were the reason, so I did the Tighten Up with Archie Bell and the Drells and the right eyecup no longer collapsed.
I showed these photos on another thread, but it got buried, not sure where it went, but the Vixen 7x50 Foresta eyecups are huge and leave little nose room for the well endowed as shown in the first photo, which I will label Exhibit A:
In Exhibit B, we see the rubber eyecups removed and replaced inside the metal housing by a Swaro winged eyecup, and how much more nose room there is now between the eyecups. I think Frank might appreciate this.
In Exhibit C, we see how the bin looks from bottom with the modified eyecups. I plan to cover the metal housings with some black tape to improve the aesthetics, but functionally, the eyecups work much better with the modification. They put my eyes at the right distance to avoid image blackouts, and they also allow a more comfortable fit.
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