• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Which Redpoll? (1 Viewer)

It's not Common that's for sure. A quick look and then a flick through Svensson suggests "exilipes" Arctic. It's certainly not right for "hornemanni."
 
Nightbird labels it as Common on the large pic and Hoary on the thumbnail?
Difficult call on this alone,but streaked flanks may favour Common.
 
I'd have to agree those flanks look too well streaked for Arctic, even a 1st year bird. One thing that I noticed on the last few Arctics I've seen has been the very tiny bill size. This birds bill seems to "fit" it's head

Mark
 
I do think this is a Common Redpoll. Actually it is very close in colours to our Icelandic Redpolls. I think the bill is too big for Arctic and it is too streaky below!
 
Jane has perhaps got it right with "Redpolls are officially hard" but I agree with my "compatriot" Gaukur that this bird looks very similar to many of the paler islandica Common Redpolls you see here. Although it's rather striking I don't think it would get a second look in the local cemetery.

E
 
Notably the bird next to it in the gallery is unequivocally Common. of course mixed flocks are possible.

In the big Arctic Year there are loads of accepted claims of Arctic Redpolls on Wirral. I went out about 10 times and only ever saw birds that were either not certainly identifiable or Mealies. I await a classic Snowball job!
 
this is probably one of those birds that is not identifiable, :brains: certainly from one pic and to try and do so is perhaps a bit presumptious.

the geberal paleness, flat broad head, very well-marked face, deep base to the retrousse bill and slight buffish tone to face along with what appear to be very pale UT covs and fluffy feathering on legs point to an Arctic

the three lines of heavy streaking extending all the way to the rear flanks, however, point towards Mealy

this appears to be one of those birds referred to in Votier et al. BB 93 Vol 2 as probably not identifiable with certainty.

think I'd call it probable Arctic just as Steve et al. do in the article ;)
 
Hi Tim,

Agreed, probably unidentifiable for 100% (hence my posting the query!). Somewhat like plates 99 & 100 in that article - one of which is Arctic (and not as white as this one!), the other 'probable Arctic'

Michael
 
:h?:They are a minefield aren't they!

Like Tim says, I think it is nigh on impossible to identify this bird correctly from one photograph. Although I think this bird is probably a Common (Mealy) Redpoll and probably islandica as Gaukur suggests.

I recently observed a very similar looking bird at Bowness Gravel Pits (Cumbria). This bird had my heart racing a bit as it was a particularly 'frosty' individual, had apparently unstreaked under-tail coverts, and a very 'bulbous' white rump with only slight streaking to the rump sides. The bill though was certainly not 'pushed in' as you would expect with Arctic. I have seen birds like this before on Out Skerries and in Norfolk, I would hazard a guess that these individuals are probably 'islandica mealy's'

I have limited experience of Arctic (Hoary) Redpoll, totalling 3 individuals (all of which were excilipes), but all of these birds showed the very distinctive 'punched in the face' bill structure.
Although the bird in Nightbirds pic does show sme apparent 'arctic' features, I don't think the bill structure is right!

Well that's my unqualified opinion :eek!: !!
 
Hi Tristan,

It may look like an Icelandic bird, but I doubt very much that it can be one - the photographer is based in Montréal, and there's nothing to suggest it is anything other than a back yard pic

I don't know if American exilipes differ at all from Eurasian exilipes (they are currently classified as the same race, as far as I know), but the Sibley guide shows some Hoaries with quite strong flank streaking.

Michael
 
Michael Frankis said:
Hi Tristan,

It may look like an Icelandic bird, but I doubt very much that it can be one - the photographer is based in Montréal, and there's nothing to suggest it is anything other than a back yard pic

Michael
Fair Point Michael! I should have payed more attention to where the picture was taken!

This aside, I think the bird has closer similarities to islandica than to exilipes.
I am of course unsure what Canadian Common Redpolls look like (and how many forms occur).

Regards
Tristan
 
Hi Tristan,

Just as Arctic/Hoary is treated as race exilipes from Labrador west all the way to Norway, so too is Common/Mealy treated as flammea from Newfoundland west to Norway - in both cases, only the Iceland and Greenland populations are given racial distinction. So in theory, Mealies should be exactly the same right across this vast area. But well - I find that a little hard to stomach.

Michael
 
Last edited:
.....but we don't know what exilipes 'polls look like across USA, as Michael said. If they have more extensive flank streaking then the bird is most likely an Arctic as already stated. The 'pale' redpolls of Iceland may be a population of Arctic anyway!

What makes it look more like an islandica than an exilipes (bearing in mind we don't really know what they look like
 
Tim Allwood said:
.....but we don't know what exilipes 'polls look like across USA, as Michael said. If they have more extensive flank streaking then the bird is most likely an Arctic as already stated. The 'pale' redpolls of Iceland may be a population of Arctic anyway!

What makes it look more like an islandica than an exilipes (bearing in mind we don't really know what they look like
Well bearing in mind I am basing my opinion on the three exilipes and fair number of flammea (including some resembling islandica) I am not sure my opinion would be very useful as all these birds have almost certainly originated from Europe and not North America.

But for what it is worth, the feature I am suggesting probably rules out exilipes is the previously mentioned bill structure. All of the exilipes that I have observed have shown the small 'pushed in bill' structure, wheareas none of the flammea I have observed have shown this feature. flammea always (in my experience) show a bigger and 'non-indented'bill structure.

Tim Allwood said:
.....The 'pale' redpolls of Iceland may be a population of Arctic anyway!
I thought the general thought on this was that the 'pale' repolls of Iceland certainly had Arctic/Hoary ancestory?

Regards
Tristan
 
Warning! This thread is more than 20 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top