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New Fujinon bins KF series: KF7x28H, KF8x42W, KF10x42W NEW (1 Viewer)

Kevin Purcell

Well-known member
As mentioned on the Minox thread the KF7x28H is just one of a number of new Fujinon bins including an open bridge roof, the KF8x42W!

Curiously these are listed under both nature and military bins.

http://www.fujinon.de/en/optical-pr.../binoculars-for-nature-obsevations/kf-series/

http://www.fujinon.de/en/optical-products/binoculars/products/military-binoculars/

Perhaps for the more style conscious Euro-soldier ("Hans is wearing the every fashionable black special forces kit to match his cure KF7x28H").

Only the 7 x 28 M with reticle seems like "real" military bin to me and like the KF7x28H it is IF.

But the other open bridge ones are 8x42 and 10x42 CF bins which seem rather normal to me.

I wonder if they're from a Chinese OEM?

Specs are nothing to write home about

http://www.fujinon.de/en/optical-pr...articles_data&articleId=4592&cHash=baf9906e9c
 
They also look just like the new 7x28s Minox has just brought out.
http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=70&L=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=380&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4585&cHash=46be4ce35d

I missed out the citation that they Minox and a link on the Minox thread for the 7x28 brought me to the other bins.

Ah, that does seem to confirm the probable Chinese origin of these (along with the link for Visionking (what is it with the 1950s style brand names: EO has SkyKing recently). From Shenzhen Visionking Optical Technology Co., Ltd. In Shenzhen (Guangdong province): another 9 million person city you haven't heard of ;)

Their web site is here

http://www.visionking.com.cn/en/index.asp

with the 7x28 in generic armor

http://www.visionking.com.cn/en/products_show.asp?p_id=220&c_pid=6

Now is 7x28 are acceptable perhaps a 7x28 CF might not be too far away. Though as others point out the FOV is not that wide.
 
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I'm a longtime fan of Fujinon's FMTs, but am not aware of a single other successful binocular that the company has brought forward. I guess they came close with the 8x42 BFL Porro, but although optically good, at 50deg AFOV, it got lost in the crowd.

Except for the FMTs (and MTs), Fujinon is about an average rebrander, certainly not as good as the best rebranders. Somebody like Bushnell or Zen-Ray, that's their life, and they do it very well. Fujinon was slow to implement phase coating, and are still not up to dielectric prism coatings. Always a step behind the curve, they just don't seem to care. Their video and medical optics are the big money for them.
Ron
 
Okay, let's get out the old broken record again. What a waste of time, materials, and personnel in making Fuji Chinese open-bridge clones. Just what the world needs, more Chinese clones. Let's throw some cheap spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks (remember, the Chinese invented pasta!).

With Zen Ray, Vortex, Promaster, Pro Optic, Atlas, Hawke, Bushnell, etc., etc. all making affordably priced open bridge roofs, Fuji has a lot of competition, and that market niche is saturated.

The company's marketing VP needs a good thumping on the head. The world is not clamoring for more open bridge Chinese clones, but for Fuji to take their excellent porro optics and put them in lighter, CF, bins for birding and hunting, two large markets worldwide.

Fuji CF 8x40 F, 8x30 F, 6x30 F, and 10x50 F porros (w/out the weighty MT) would be hot sellers if they rivaled the MTs in image quality but had lighter magnesium frames like the SE series. They already have the optics designed for the 6x30, 8x30, and 10x50.

Fuji should build on its own strengths. They know how to make high quality porros. I know I've said this ad nauseam, but I'm hoping if enough people get fired up about this exciting idea and write Fuji, perhaps they will realize the market potential for such bins.

Granted, we live in the Age of Roofannosaurus Rex, so high quality porros would not be consumed like spaghetti, but given the dearth of competition, Fuji would dominate that niche.

Ignatius P.
 
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With Zen Ray, Vortex, Promaster, Pro Optic, Atlas, Hawke, Bushnell, etc., etc. all making affordably priced open bridge roofs, Fuji has a lot of competition, and that market niche is saturated. The company's marketing VP needs a good thumping on the head. The world is not clamoring for more open bridge Chinese clones, but for Fuji to take their excellent porro optics and put them in lighter, CF, bins for birding and hunting, two large markets worldwide.

Roof prism binoculars are where the market is today and those are the models that are selling. It would be foolish for a relatively unknown binocular brand like Fujinon to bet that their product would cause the market for porro prism binoculars to come back. If there was demand in the market for porro prism binoculars don't you think the big brands would be in there producing new cutting edge designs?


Fuji CF 8x40 F, 8x30 F, 6x30 F, and 10x50 F porros (w/out the weighty MT) would be hot sellers if they rivaled the MTs in image quality but had lighter magnesium frames like the SE series. They already have the optics designed for the 6x30, 8x30, and 10x50.

Like the quality poro prism bins from the better known brands the ones you mentioned were good sellers once upon a time. But we all know the market for porro prism binoculars has been shrinking. I happen to like the porro prism design a whole lot more than open bridge roof prisms. But I'm in a declining minority.

Fuji should build on its own strengths. They know how to make high quality porros. I know I've said this ad nauseam, but I'm hoping if enough people get fired up about this exciting idea and write Fuji, perhaps they will realize the market potential for such bins.

Fujinon is who you need to convince. Can you come up with enough potential buyers of porro prism binoculars for Fujinon to justify redirecting resources from a growing market to one that is shrinking?
 
Roof prism binoculars are where the market is today and those are the models that are selling. It would be foolish for a relatively unknown binocular brand like Fujinon to bet that their product would cause the market for porro prism binoculars to come back. If there was demand in the market for porro prism binoculars don't you think the big brands would be in there producing new cutting edge designs?

Like the quality poro prism bins from the better known brands the ones you mentioned were good sellers once upon a time. But we all know the market for porro prism binoculars has been shrinking. I happen to like the porro prism design a whole lot more than open bridge roof prisms. But I'm in a declining minority.

Fujinon is who you need to convince. Can you come up with enough potential buyers of porro prism binoculars for Fujinon to justify redirecting resources from a growing market to one that is shrinking?

John,

I realize we porromaniacs are in a minority, however, the FMT/MT marine binoculars are also a niche market, a smaller market than birding and hunting, and Fuji doesn't seem to mind that. The 10x50s and 16x70s are mainly used by amateur astronomers who use binoculars, another small market.

I think the real issue is about perception and marketing. You can sell a "pet rock" if you market it cleverly enough.

Plus, there is a diehard group of buyers who prefer porros. You and I are not alone. Do you notice the way that the SEs get gobbled up every time a new batch is released by a store? Gone in 60 seconds.

After the Cambrian Roof Explosion, CF porros became a niche market, and high quality CF porros are an even smaller niche occupied by only three sport optics companies, Nikon, Swaro, and Canon, and only Canon has added to their line up, and with the IS, they are a niche within a niche.

But something new is happening to the roof market. For one, the mid-priced roof market is flooded with more choices than Baskin Robbins, and they are getting cheaper and better so while inexpensive porros such as the EX Actions still provide a bit more "bang for the buck," that gap is narrowing.

The second is that the prices of alphas today are going THROUGH THE ROOF. Alphas that cost $800 15 years ago cost $2K today. Fujinon can make CF porros of similar quality to the FMTs for half the price of alphas or less.

If buyers were given a choice of buying a WP porro, which had optics on par with alphas but that cost half the price or less, do you think they would shun them merely because they were porros? Maybe... if they hadn't looked through them.

It reminds me of the story Stephen Ingraham used to tell about how birders asked him with all the bins he reviews, why couldn't he get something better than than the short, squat porros he had in his hands (8x32 SE). Then he would hand him the SEs, they would be bedazzled and wonder no more.

What I think happened is that alphas started making roofs and the rest of the flock followed. The reason people don't value porros as much as much as they do roofs is a more a matter of fashion than reason.

If there were more high quality CF WP porros available, I think people would buy them. Not in the large quantities like they buy Monarchs or Legend Ultra HDs or even Action EX porros, but in good enough numbers to sustain a profit and keep on making them.... like alpha roofs.

Do I have the marketing data to back that up? No. But all the positive posts about porros on CN, BF, Optics Talk, and 24hrcampfire are enough to suggest that Fuji do a marketing study to see if it is feasible, because a CF WP high quality porro have the potential to outsell IF FMT porros. They may not be sitting on a gold mine, but potentially a silver mine.

What would really put these porros over the top is if they had internal focusers and Porro II prisms. Innovation can change the course of evolution, it could also change the course of business.

"Innovation is the specific instrument of entrepreneurship. The act that endows resources with a new capacity to create wealth." -- Peter Drucker
 
Okay, let's get out the old broken record again. What a waste of time, materials, and personnel in making Fuji Chinese open-bridge clones. Just what the world needs, more Chinese clones. Let's throw some cheap spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks (remember, the Chinese invented pasta!).


The company's marketing VP needs a good thumping on the head. The world is not clamoring for more open bridge Chinese clones, but for Fuji to take their excellent porro optics and put them in lighter, CF, bins for birding and hunting, two large markets worldwide.

Ignatius P.

Brock

You never cease to amuse me with your constant tirades against all of the Marketing professionals at the major bino manufacturers. In "your world" do any of them ever do anything right? Somehow, I must be mistaken that the world is driven by supply and demand, and a strong profit motive. With all this pent up demand for alpha class porros, it certainly is a mystery to me as to why no one has stepped up to fill the void. I wonder why these companies keep resisting putting out some alpha class porros, and instead waste their time and money putting out roofs and IS binos that one one wants. If I watched a lot of Glenn Beck, I would have to surmise there is some sort of conspiracy underfoot.;)
 
John,


Plus, there is a diehard group of buyers who prefer porros. You and I are not alone. Do you notice the way that the SEs get gobbled up every time a new batch is released by a store? Gone in 60 seconds.

Hmmm - Isn't it interesting that back in August I posted that NYCV had 8 pairs of 8x32 SE's and 3 pairs of 10x42 SE's, and that as of January they did not sell all of the 8x32 SE's in spite of even offering them on Ebay for less than $500 with no takers.

How popular did you say these were? I thought Gone in 60 Seconds was a movie about fast cars, as it obviously does not apply to SE's. Guess this just proves that these are not as popular as some would try to lead others to believe.;)
 
Rebuttal Part Deux

Roof prism binoculars are where the market is today and those are the models that are selling. It would be foolish for a relatively unknown binocular brand like Fujinon to bet that their product would cause the market for porro prism binoculars to come back.

If it's foolish for a relatively unknown binocular brand like Fujinon to make porros (which, btw, I disagree with, Fuji/Fujinon brand names are widely known, but their binoculars are not well known in the birding circles since here-there-to they've only produced two lines of birding bins of note, the BFL porros and CD roof models, neither of which really caught fire), ipso facto, it would also be foolish for them to make roofs for the same reason (Fuji who?).

Nay, even more foolish, because if their outsourced clones stink, that's the first impression birders are going to get about Fuji, and probably the last.

However, if Fuji put out an original, innovative, high quality product, reviewers will liken that product to what is already known in some circles as the best marine bins made. Oh, yeah, THOSE guys. Hey, they KNOW optics.

If Zen Ray, Vortex, and Hawke can come out of nowhere with no history in the birding market and catch fire by producing an innovative product, then it should be even easier for Fuji, but the clones aren't it.

If there was demand in the market for porro prism binoculars don't you think the big brands would be in there producing new cutting edge designs?

Although there is a great demand for roofs, the affordable priced roof market is saturated, and there's already good product out there, so Fuji would have to make a "better Ford" to compete.

It's not just about demand, it's also about competition. It remains to be seen, but IMO, the Fuji clones are spaghetti that's not going to stick.

As far as the big brands, to go back to Peter Drucker's quote, they made innovations in the roof design that has earned them big bucks.

On the surface it might seem foolish for them to make a 360 and start making innovations to the nearly extinct porrosauruses, but lets focus in a little closer.

Roofs were inferior optically to porros, because of the inherent light loss due to the roof prism design, so making p-coatings (Zeiss) and then perfecting them to 99.99% reflectivity was their chief innovation. Without that, they couldn't compete with porros, which don't need p-coatings.

They also improved light transmission through multilayer AR coatings and fine tuned them to create better color saturation and contrast, and then used high quality glass, which even in blank form, costs more than entire mid-priced bins cost.

Mechanically, they also created innovations with internal focus, on-the-focus diopters, click-stop, twist-up eyecups, and nitrogen purging.

From there it's been "one small step for roofs, one giant step for prices". Water repellent coatings, ED glass, etc., all driving prices higher and higher. How much of this $ goes back into R&D and how much into the pockets of the top execs, I'd like to know. ;)

I've been on the soap box about this for about two years with my "Incremental Change$ for Diminishing Return$" campaign. The Big Three have milked roofs for all their worth (and then some).

Making a high quality porro that incorporate most of these innovations (some have already trickled down), now that would be something new in today's market.

But as long birders are willing to pay through the nose for incremental changes, why bother? So they keep pulling on the teat.

OTOH, Fuji has prided itself in making some the best porros available, albeit with IF and MT chassis. So it makes more sense for them to build on what they've already done rather than trying to reinvent the wheel so they can follow the leader(s). And they know this, that's why they aren't making new roofs, but just re-branding Chinese clones.

Dear Mr. Fuji, Make some CF porro protoypes. Test market them (send one to me to review) and put a stop to this Chinese clone copycatting, because it's not going anywhere and might even hurt your brand name.

Iggy P.
 
If it's foolish for a relatively unknown binocular brand like Fujinon to make porros (which, btw, I disagree with, Fuji/Fujinon brand names are widely known, but their binoculars are not well known in the birding circles since here-there-to they've only produced two lines of birding bins of note, the BFL porros and CD roof models, neither of which really caught fire), ipso facto, it would also be foolish for them to make roofs for the same reason (Fuji who?).

Nay, even more foolish, because if their outsourced clones stink, that's the first impression birders are going to get about Fuji, and probably the last.

However, if Fuji put out an original, innovative, high quality product, reviewers will liken that product to what is already known in some circles as the best marine bins made. Oh, yeah, THOSE guys. Hey, they KNOW optics.

If Zen Ray, Vortex, and Hawke can come out of nowhere with no history in the birding market and catch fire by producing an innovative product, then it should be even easier for Fuji, but the clones aren't it.



Although there is a great demand for roofs, the affordable priced roof market is saturated, and there's already good product out there, so Fuji would have to make a "better Ford" to compete.

It's not just about demand, it's also about competition. It remains to be seen, but IMO, the Fuji clones are spaghetti that's not going to stick.

As far as the big brands, to go back to Peter Drucker's quote, they made innovations in the roof design that has earned them big bucks.

On the surface it might seem foolish for them to make a 360 and start making innovations to the nearly extinct porrosauruses, but lets focus in a little closer.

Roofs were inferior optically to porros, because of the inherent light loss due to the roof prism design, so making p-coatings (Zeiss) and then perfecting them to 99.99% reflectivity was their chief innovation. Without that, they couldn't compete with porros, which don't need p-coatings.

They also improved light transmission through multilayer AR coatings and fine tuned them to create better color saturation and contrast, and then used high quality glass, which even in blank form, costs more than entire mid-priced bins cost.

Mechanically, they also created innovations with internal focus, on-the-focus diopters, click-stop, twist-up eyecups, and nitrogen purging.

From there it's been "one small step for roofs, one giant step for prices". Water repellent coatings, ED glass, etc., all driving prices higher and higher. How much of this $ goes back into R&D and how much into the pockets of the top execs, I'd like to know. ;)

I've been on the soap box about this for about two years with my "Incremental Change$ for Diminishing Return$" campaign. The Big Three have milked roofs for all their worth (and then some).

Making a high quality porro that incorporate most of these innovations (some have already trickled down), now that would be something new in today's market.

But as long birders are willing to pay through the nose for incremental changes, why bother? So they keep pulling on the teat.

OTOH, Fuji has prided itself in making some the best porros available, albeit with IF and MT chassis. So it makes more sense for them to build on what they've already done rather than trying to reinvent the wheel so they can follow the leader(s). And they know this, that's why they aren't making new roofs, but just re-branding Chinese clones.

Dear Mr. Fuji, Make some CF porro protoypes. Test market them (send one to me to review) and put a stop to this Chinese clone copycatting, because it's not going anywhere and might even hurt your brand name.

Iggy P.

What evidence do you have to show that the market for roof prism binoculars is saturated. If it was saturated with product then prices would be falling rapidly and binocular manufacturers would be cutting back on production of existing and not designing new models. That clearly is not the case. Just look around at all of the new interesting roof prism bins from companies ranging from Zen Ray to Nikon. I have no idea why it is significant to you that some companies are simply rebranding chinese made binoculars. Outsourcing of production has been done with german, japanese, american(once upon a time) and now chinese binocular manufacturers. The well-thought of Leupold does not manufacture optics - they are made elsewhere. Care to guess where? Ever wonder whether Nikon or Swarovski makes all the parts for their binoculars?

I really don't care what the proclaimed country of origin is and whether the parts came from 3 or 30 different companies in as many countries. What I care about is that the binocular company sells well designed binoculars and keeps close tabs on quality control and backs up their product.

The fact is the market for porro prism binoculars is shrinking. Buyers have turned to the roof prism design in droves and binocular manufacturers have responded accordingly. For an optics company to continue producing what once sold well but no longer does would be corporate suicide.
 
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For an optics company to continue producing what once sold well but no longer does would be corporate suicide.

I find this statement ironically amusing since we are discussing Fujifilm aka Fujinon. They are the last "analog" holdouts of the digital age, stubbornly holding on to their film business. For several years, this strategy did look like the company was performing the Japanese seppaku ritual. But now film is making a comeback with pros and Fuji dominates the market. Moreover, their film chemistry research yield some surprising results/compounds and now cosmetics is one of their best performing businesses, at least in Japan.

Anyway, I disagree that Fujinon is a relatively "unknown" in sports optics. The brand has lots of cache, especially in SE Asia, and most customers are not obsessed with the minutae of optics, with price being their MAJOR concern. The fact is, off "brands" like Zen Ray would not sell here. Not when Nikon, Fujinon and Pentax are offering what appears to be the same functionality at a similar price.
 
Hmmm - Isn't it interesting that back in August I posted that NYCV had 8 pairs of 8x32 SE's and 3 pairs of 10x42 SE's, and that as of January they did not sell all of the 8x32 SE's in spite of even offering them on Ebay for less than $500 with no takers.

How popular did you say these were? I thought Gone in 60 Seconds was a movie about fast cars, as it obviously does not apply to SE's. Guess this just proves that these are not as popular as some would try to lead others to believe.;)
There has been 5 Nikon 8x32 SE, 4 Nikon 10x42 SE and 2 12x50 SE binoculars sold on Astromart in the last year. This doesn't include the ads that people delete after sale.


I see two NY stores don't have the 8SE but do have the 10 & 12 SE. I guess $500-$550 for a 8SE is ok, but people don't want to pay $700-$800 for the 10 & 12. I remember the NY store having the 8SE on Ebay. They must of sold all of them.
 
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I find this statement ironically amusing since we are discussing Fujifilm aka Fujinon. They are the last "analog" holdouts of the digital age, stubbornly holding on to their film business. For several years, this strategy did look like the company was performing the Japanese seppaku ritual. But now film is making a comeback with pros and Fuji dominates the market. Moreover, their film chemistry research yield some surprising results/compounds and now cosmetics is one of their best performing businesses, at least in Japan.

Anyway, I disagree that Fujinon is a relatively "unknown" in sports optics. The brand has lots of cache, especially in SE Asia, and most customers are not obsessed with the minutae of optics, with price being their MAJOR concern. The fact is, off "brands" like Zen Ray would not sell here. Not when Nikon, Fujinon and Pentax are offering what appears to be the same functionality at a similar price.

Rick, I think a lot of people on here had the chance to look through a Fuji 10x50 FMT-SX they would change their mind on IF porro binoculars.
 

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Talk about a niche product, the new 8x50 FMTR D/N get me all excited and it's trying to fill two markets in one. Unfortunately, they say "These binoculars are subject to special purchasing and export license regulations, details can be submitted upon request"
Apparently they aren't available to the general public though I see that Monk Optics has them for £5,995.00 - a little too expensive for me. :(


The Fujinon 8x50 FMTR D/N (Day & Night) combines top-quality binoculars with a binocular night-vision instrument. It features two sets of interchangeable oculars, specially developed for day and night-time use. You are no longer forced to carry two different sets of binoculars everywhere you go. One pair suffices-a welcome weight reduction that gives you unparalleled flexibility for a wide range of applications.
 

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What evidence do you have to show that the market for roof prism binoculars is saturated. If it was saturated with product then prices would be falling rapidly and binocular manufacturers would be cutting back on production of existing and not designing new models. That clearly is not the case. Just look around at all of the new interesting roof prism bins from companies ranging from Zen Ray to Nikon. I have no idea why it is significant to you that some companies are simply rebranding chinese made binoculars. Outsourcing of production has been done with german, japanese, american(once upon a time) and now chinese binocular manufacturers. The well-thought of Leupold does not manufacture optics - they are made elsewhere. Care to guess where? Ever wonder whether Nikon or Swarovski makes all the parts for their binoculars?

I really don't care what the proclaimed country of origin is and whether the parts came from 3 or 30 different companies in as many countries. What I care about is that the binocular company sells well designed binoculars and keeps close tabs on quality control and backs up their product.

The fact is the market for porro prism binoculars is shrinking. Buyers have turned to the roof prism design in droves and binocular manufacturers have responded accordingly. For an optics company to continue producing what once sold well but no longer does would be corporate suicide.

John,

Making porros hasn't been "corporate suicide" for Leupold, whose Yosemite porros have sold quite well, because they do what porros do best, provide the "best bang for the buck". They have also spurred the development of similar new porros such as Vortex 6.5x and 8.5x32 Raptors and the Eagle Optics Ravens and Triumphs.

There are also a host of reverse porros by a number of manufacturers, and new midsized and full sized porros by Leupold (Rogue), Swift (new 820), Celestron, and Vixen.

Companies such as Nikon, Bushnell, and Steiner never stopped making porros.

Eagle Optics carries 98 different porros at various price points, from $900 Steiners to $89 EO Ravens:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars?query=porro

The real threat to the porros at this point are not alphas or second tier roofs, but cheaper and better Chinese mid-to-low priced priced roofs.

Porros are not quite extinct, but as you stated, they continue to lose ground in the binocular market as improved roof prisms binoculars chip away at porro prism market niche - the economy and budget binocular.

Porro prism binoculars have always dominated this market niche, because they are cheaper to build than a comparable roof prism binocular, but that seems to be changing as binocular manufacturers continue to pump out ever larger numbers of roof prism binoculars each year, which helps reduce the costs associated with making this popular design.

As far as evidence of the non-alpha roof prism market being "saturated," well perhaps that word might have been a bit too strong since you took it to mean as there being no room to grow.

Certainly there have been new roof models introduced by those already established in the market, but it remains to be seen what room is left for Johnny-Come-Latelys such Fuji clones or Theron.

I hope to try the Wapiti soon and find out if they are innovative (e.g., sharp edges for this price point). If so, they might succeed. If they are just a variation on a theme, as the Fujis seem to be, well, Baskin Robbins already has 32 flavors. Good Luck!

You've been on BF since 2005, but even in the last 5 years, there's been a tremendous growth in the number of mid-priced roofs being imported from China.

Just take a look at Vortex, which came out of nowhere and seemingly overnight produced a full lines of binoculars:

http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/binoculars

They currently have 11 models, they had more but they dropped their Stokes line. They also have spotting scopes, monoculars, rifle scopes, and with their new Razor and Talon HD bins, have entered the second tier market with Pentax EDs and Meoptas. The second tier market is a segment that has room to grow.

That's just one example. Add Zen Ray, Hawke, Promaster, Bushnell, Nikon, Eagle Optics, etc., etc. who are making or importing and re-badging mid-priced roofs and there have never been so many roofs in this segment since the roof prism bin was invented, and this makes this market segment more competitive, with a host of equally good and equally bad choices.

If you want more evidence, google roof prism binoculars and you'll get about 147,000 results in 0.33 seconds.

As in almost all business sectors, early adopters usually have the advantage. But if a company comes along with a "better Ford," and markets it properly, there's room for something innovative, because it will stand out from the crowd. But at this point, there's not much room left for more copycats.

When I started "binocularing" about 15 years ago, choices of bins in the mid-priced range were very limited and any roof in the "affordable" category with porros was junk and not worth buying.

Of what mid-priced roofs existed, most were not not p-coated. My first roof was a Nikon 8x36 Sporter 1. Great build quality but compared to my Swift 8x42 Ultralite (the original Japanese version), the image was soft and it suffered from flare/glare. But they had twist up eyecups, the first time I tried those and I liked them.

Nikon also had one full sized roof at the time too, can't remember the name (encyclopedic Kevin probably knows), but I don't think those had p-coatings either.

I think Zeiss had only four roofs in production at that time, the 7x42 B/GA, 10x40 B/GA, 8x30 B/GA, and the 8x56 B/GA.

I don't remember what other roofs were out there besides Leica (or was it still Leitz?) and Swaro, but the binocular market was still very much dominated by porros from companies such as Nikon, Bushnell/B&L, and Swift.

Brock
 
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As far as country of origin, today products are made all over the world by brands associated with certain countries. I exposed this myth in an article I wrote in the 1990s ago when "Buy American" bumper stickers started appearing on US cars.

Some Chryslers were built in Austria (not sure if that's still the case since they split with Daimler), some Opels (German subsidiary of GM) are built in Britain, Vauxhalls (British subsidiary of GM) are built in Spain, Fords are built in Germany, and some Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Nissan vehicles are built in the US and in the UK. And let's not forget Canada and Mexico!

While you may not care about the country of origin of the binoculars you buy, others do, particularly hunters. Just check out the posts on Optics Talk or 24hrcampfire. In general, hunters tend to be more conservative than birders and a portion of them don't like the idea of buying binoculars from a communist country. The "Red Menace" has even reared its ugly head on these forums.

There is also the stigma of China being associated with "cheap goods" the way Japan was when I was a child. So some people won't buy Chinese simply on grounds that they expect the quality to be poor. Companies such as Vortex and Zen Ray are turning that perception around, slowly but surely, since even hunters seem to be buying those brands now.

I'm currently working on an article about Walmart distribution centers. If Walmart was a country, it would be China’s 8th largest trading partner in the world! Walmart also requires all its vendors to make their goods in China.

I have no such prejudice against Chinese goods, as long as they are made well and have good quality control, but alas, most Chinese products are not made well and they fall apart in short order. Basically, cheap disposables.

There is also the opposite effect. Some buyers will chose Minox's "Made in Germany" HGs over its "Made in Japan" HGs simply because Eurobins have more cachet.

If a company sourced its parts from 30 different companies, no way would they be able to maintain quality control or oversee QC in all those countries. So that's not even an option.

Companies try to walk the tight wire when it comes to parts suppliers. Too little and they get stuck when one goes out of business or a natural disaster or man made disaster happens; too many, and they can't keep control of the quality. In fact, large companies such a Marriott demand that their vendors have a disaster plan in place so that if something should happen at their plant or in the area, they can get back up running as quickly as possible. The federal government started requiring this of all its agencies after 9/11.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about Swaro's "foreign parts," but according to our resident Swaro rep, Dale Forbes, the reason Swarovski refuses to move its manufacturing out of Austria is that the company adheres to ISO 9000 Standards and does not feel they could get the same quality products by outsourcing their manufacture. Perhaps you have some inside information that Dale does not or can't speak of. :)

As I've written elsewhere, I don't think the porro prism binocular will ever become totally extinct because of their optical efficiency.

Porro prism binoculars still offer the greatest brightness and resolution for the buck, and there are some market segments such as amateur astronomy, and marine and military applications, where the porro prism binocular will continue to dominate.

This is especially true for astronomy binoculars where center focusing and ergonomics are of little concern since to truly stop the "bouncing ball," you need to mount the binoculars and focus is always at infinity.

As Holger asked at the end of his Meopta vs. EII review, Why pay for features you don’t really need? That’s why 90% of astronomy binoculars are porro prisms instead of roof prism binoculars. You don't need nitrogen purged bins down to 10 meters, because if it's raining, you're not going stargazing!

I continue to believe that the dominance of roofs is more one of fashion than of reason. If an optics company, particularly one that is already well established and recognized for its quality optics, be it Fuji, Nikon, Swarovski, or some other longtime player, would go out on a limb and produce a high quality porro that could match an alphas performance with ergonomics that aren't too bulky or heavy and come in at half the price or less of alphas, only snobs and fools would not considering buy them.

However, I don't think it's "Fuji" that I have to convince. As Rick pointed out, in the film market, being a Luddite has paid off for them.

If there's going to be a new high quality porro made, it's more likely to come from a smaller, "hungrier" company such as Zen Ray or Vortex.

Sooner or later, some company is going to realize the potential for high quality porros, and if they build a better "Lexus" than Nikon or better "Audi" than Swaro, they will dominate that market segment.

Brock
 
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I think Zeiss had only four roofs in production at that time, the 7x42 B/GA, 10x40 B/GA, 8x30 B/GA, and the 8x56 B/GA, and since those had Abbe-Konig prisms, p-coatings weren't an issue.

A-K prisms are roof prisms, so they do benefit from phase coatings. I believe you are thinking of the fact that that A-K prisms use total internal reflection on every surface, so no reflective coating is necessary, as it would be in most other commonly used roof prism systems (Schmidt-Pechan).

Best regards,
Patrik Iver
 
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