Flava wagtail i.d. (1 Viewer)

CJW · May 5, 2004

Yesterday I mentioned finding 3 Yellow Wagtails on a nearby beach in THIS thread.
Well one of the birds is still present today and I have just taken some digiscoped shots of it and, in reviewing them, the bird appears very 'cold', washed-out, grey/blue about the head (contrasting with the olive upperparts).
Does anyone know/think that Blue-headed females are identifiable. Perhaps even 1st Summer males?
It's a few years since I've seen a female-type flava wag', but I seem to remember the head colouraion on female British birds being pretty much concolourous with the mantle (?).
I'll post the photos this evening for your input, but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Jane Turner · May 5, 2004

Put em up Chris... I think there is a small difference, though probably not consistent enough to claim...with the exception of Black-heads in range!

CJW · May 5, 2004

The more I look at these photos the more I can convince myself that the head is definitely greyish with none of the olive tones of the lower mantle. It's damn frustrating having to wait to post them, but the Mrs. has all the equipment that would enable me to upload this afternoon.

Jane Turner · May 5, 2004

Been a good sprinkling of Male Blue-heads in all the Whites in NW Britain... Unfortunately all mine have been high level flyovers!

My guess is that the best you will be able to do is say probably not flavissima - hell the males are tough enough!

Grousemore · May 5, 2004

Looking forward to seeing the pics,Chris.
I'd never looked too deeply into Yellow Wagtail,but having seen one in Portugal last week,realised the complexities of the species.
I put the one I saw down as iberiae,the white throat and proximity to Spain being the less than scientific reason.

Stephen Dunstan · May 5, 2004

The call is slightly different isn't it? I found a male BH Wag and a female at Walney a few years back, and we decided the female was probably also BH as they both called differently to a standard Yellow.

Mind you so few Yellows around these days you would have trouble getting your ear in.

Stephen.

Jono L · May 5, 2004

wag

Where are you putting these photos of this wag?
Just interested as we have had some fun with a flava/flavissima fem hanging around at Grafham this spring, which some have mooted as "Channel" Wag, but I believe is just a fem flava.
Photos of this wag are on my website if you are interested (see link below)
cheers

HH75 · May 5, 2004

Hi all,
With regard to calls,I believe that only feldegg and some of the eastern races(taivana et al) differ from the more 'typical' Yellow Wagtails(flava,flavissima,thunbergi etc)?
Harry

CJW · May 5, 2004

Well, here's the best of the bunch. The black dots on a couple of the shots are flies (there's been a big hatching over the last couple of days.).

Stephen Dunstan · May 5, 2004

Harry Hussey said:
Hi all,
With regard to calls,I believe that only feldegg and some of the eastern races(taivana et al) differ from the more 'typical' Yellow Wagtails(flava,flavissima,thunbergi etc)?
Harry

Harry,

Maybe it is the difference between 'a thin but far carrying pseet or longer, more disyllabic swee-eep' (Beaman and Madge). Maybe I am making it up, but the Walney birds didn't sound like bog standard Yellows.

Stephen.

HH75 · May 5, 2004

Hi Chris,
Very interesting!I have only ever seen two spring Yellow Wagtails(a female last May that couldn't be assigned to race and a male flavissima in early June last year),but this bird looks distinctly odd to me,and I would be inclined to lean towards it being a flava...with the proviso that I may well be wrong!
Harry

HH75 · May 5, 2004

Hi Stephen,

Stephen Dunstan said:
Harry,

Maybe it is the difference between 'a thin but far carrying pseet or longer, more disyllabic swee-eep' (Beaman and Madge). Maybe I am making it up, but the Walney birds didn't sound like bog standard Yellows.

Stephen.

You may be right?I hear so few Yellow Wagtails(only saw two last year,and neither called!Haven't heard one since Sep.2002!) that I wouldn't be overly familiar with the call(know it well enough to ID fly-overs as Yellow Wags,but that's it).It is possible,perhaps,that there are subtle differences?
With regard to the eastern races:back in November 2001 there were 1-2 grey Yellow Wags at Tacumshin.I was down there for some other reason,and heard this odd call that didn't click with me at all.Later on,I met some birders there,and they asked me if I had heard the Yellow Wagtail?Oddly enough,when I next heard one(the following autumn),I knew what it was straight away:have since read that taivana etc call more like Citrine....
Harry

CJW · May 5, 2004

I didn't hear this bird call, but am convinced it is not the same one that I did hear yesterday which gave a fairly 'classic' (from what I can remember) flavissima call.
Yeterday's bird (one of 3 seen) was also a female/1st Summer type but at no time did it show any hint of blue-grey about the head.
It makes me wonder if is, indeed, a mature female or even 1st Summer male flava.
Reference to BWP shows a female flava which is almost identical to this bird.

Edward woodwood · May 5, 2004

looks to have at least some flava in it Chris, maybe even 100%......

the white super and grey-blue cast both point away from flavissima. Quite a long time since I saw fem. types though.....

Jane Turner · May 5, 2004

Yes its possible that that isn't a flavissima..

Jane Turner · May 5, 2004

feldegg def has a different call - can't say I've noticed any difference with the otehr races!

CJW · May 5, 2004

I'm definitely thinking it's more than likely a flava for two reasons:
1) The whiteness of the supercillium, without any hint of the pale lemon associated with female flavissima
2) The blue/grey colour of the head is a stronger colour than even the palest flava which would surely (?) show some olive tones - similar to the colour of the mantle (visible in the third photo).
The reason for my tenacity where the bird is concerned is that 'Yellow Wagtails' are rare on the island at any time and it would be nice to be able to assign a race to this bird which was remarkably different to the other more classic flavissima birds present. I think I'm right in thinking that flava hasn't been recorded on the island for many years (if at all).

Michael Frankis · May 6, 2004

Looks very like the Blue-h Wag I saw today at Cresswell Pond (Northumbs)

Michael

Binocularface · May 6, 2004

Hi CJW

Interesting bird, Yellow Wagtails are also very scarce in North Cumbria. However there were a couple of birds recently, one being a very striking male and the other being a female looking very similar to your bird. I have seen quite a few flava wags over the years (mostly on the East coast!)and think this bird looks good for one!

Regards
Tristan

CJW · May 6, 2004

Thanks for that Tristan.
Actually, I'm wondering if this is a similar scenario to Winter-plumaged littoralis Rock Pipit in that some extreme birds are clearly separable.

Flava wagtail i.d. (1 Viewer)

Hit-and-run WUM

Well-known member

Hit-and-run WUM

Well-known member

Senior Member

Registered User

Well-known member

Well-known member

Hit-and-run WUM

Attachments

Registered User

Well-known member

Well-known member

Hit-and-run WUM

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Hit-and-run WUM

conehead

You've all got one...............!

Hit-and-run WUM

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread