Nikon D4 announced (1 Viewer)

The Empire Strikes Back with this beauty http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/06/NikonD4launched.

Interesting that dpreview's description states that this camera has a tilting LCD screen but the official photos suggest otherwise.

I see nothing that says the screen is a tilting one on DPreview. I think you've probs misunderstood where it says in the spec sheet "Articulating screen - Fixed"

In terms of specs the 1DX is winning this battle so far (albeit a little more money) but it'll be very interesting to see the reviews given that both cameras are hitting the market at roughly the same time so surely will be compared to each other directly in some reviews. DPreview did this when reviewing the MKIV and the D3s.

I'm looking at one or other for my next camera with these two (I wish! :-O).

Nikons' AF is more sensitive!

If one looks at the specs posted on Nikonrumors etc:
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/07/nikon-d4-vs-canon-eos-1dx-specs-comparison.aspx/#more-30564
one can be mislead that Canon does pip Nikon to the post.
Whats these comparisons fail to mention is that the Nikon D4 has an AF that works at f8.0 and at EV-2, while the 1Dx stops at f5.6

This means Nikon shooters can use the new TC 20E111 and the Nikkor 500mm f4.0 or 600mm f4.0, an option not available to Canon users....!

For Bird photographers this is a real boon.:t:

Pasquier said:

If one looks at the specs posted on Nikonrumors etc:
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/07/nikon-d4-vs-canon-eos-1dx-specs-comparison.aspx/#more-30564
one can be mislead that Canon does pip Nikon to the post.
Whats these comparisons fail to mention is that the Nikon D4 has an AF that works at f8.0 and at EV-2, while the 1Dx stops at f5.6

This means Nikon shooters can use the new TC 20E111 and the Nikkor 500mm f4.0 or 600mm f4.0, an option not available to Canon users....!

For Bird photographers this is a real boon.:t:

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I think many of us are baffled why Canon have dropped the AF at F8 as this has always been one of the defining features of a 1D body over the lower models and always a welcome one at that. Perhaps we will hear an explanation of this at some point from Canon themselves or second-hand from reviewers who Canon may have told. I really don't think the Nikon can be said to have won because of that alone.

Two things that are troubling me, the 1Dx is Canon's new flagship DSLR whilst the D4 is intended to replace the D3s I believe so whilst both are professional DSLR's the Canon is probably meant to be that little bit higher in specs. I'm sure though we will see a D4x at some point to well and truly top the Nikon pile and god only knows what that will be capable of but will it be a more comparable product to the 1Dx? This leads to the second thing in that Canon have merged their 1D lines into this model so whilst it's the flagship at the moment Canon have deliberately taken the step to pin it back slightly to keep the costs down (a possible reason for no AF at f8?) as there will no longer be a 'cheaper' 1D option whilst I expect Nikon will still maintain two distinct levels of professional DSLR and if there is indeed to be a D4x it will almost certainly have a heftier price tag still than the 1Dx. It's a very deliberate marketing strategy from Canon and one that I think is a step in the wrong direction but maybe it's a step they have been forced to take recently given the problems they've had. Who can say beyond mere speculation what the reasons are.

To sum that lot up then it might seem that the 1Dx is neither directly comparable to the D4 or a possible D4x as it is sort of sits between the two. Yet it will be Canon's flagship and so should be compared to whatever we see as Nikon's flagship (D4x?) but I feel it will ultimately be nearer to the price of a D4 than a D4X which should draw comparisons with that too. It's quite an awkward situation I suppose but we'll just have to wait to see what develops from here with regards future announcements and what the reviewers have to say about each and what comparisons they decide to make but as the 1Dx and the D4 are the two latest offerings then it makes sense for the moment to compare one to the other.

I was always under the impression that the D3s and D3x both sat equally at the top of the pile, one was more sports orientated the other landscapes/studio. What the D3x gained in mp it lost in noise control and AF to the D3s? Might be wrong though.

Having said that no one can argue that the d3x is top of the Nikon pile when it comes to the cost.

Jaff said:

Two things that are troubling me, the 1Dx is Canon's new flagship DSLR whilst the D4 is intended to replace the D3s I believe so whilst both are professional DSLR's the Canon is probably meant to be that little bit higher in specs.

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Certainly won't be troubling me, I can't afford any of them !

Rioja - I think that is true for most of us....
Would love a D4 though.... drool .... the ability to use really high ISO's is really appealing.

Jaff said:

Perhaps we will hear an explanation of this at some point from Canon themselves

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An "official" explanation has been available for a few months:

http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/

Chuck Westfall said:

Canon felt that while it would have been nice to preserve AF at f/8, the overall improvement in AF achieved with the 1D x took precedence. The new AF system is faster, more controllable, and more intelligent. The improved algorithm means that AF won’t jump to the background as quickly, won’t be tripped up as easily by obstacles in front of the subject, and will handle subjects that are small in the frame much better. As you mention, AF is unavailable on the EOS-1D X if the maximum aperture reported to the camera through the electronic lens mount is smaller than f/5.6. This is a lower specification than previous EOS-1 series DSLRs. There are a lot of trade-offs in life, and this is one of them. Essentially, Canon Inc. decided that the overall improvement of the new 61-point AF system compared to the older 45-point system took precedence over the need for that particular feature. Taking your f/4 lenses as an example, with the new 1D X you now have 41 cross-type AF points (or 21 cross-types with the f/5.6 lenses) plus color and face detection tracking when using those lenses whereas there were none of those features with previous 1D/1Ds cameras. The AI Servo system on the new camera is vastly better than earlier cameras as well, in terms of sensitivity and performance as well as controllability.

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Now, whether you buy this explanation...

The fact that Westfall reckons face recognition is a reasonable trade-off for f/8 AF tells me very clearly that the 1Dx is not seen by Canon as its new flagship wildlife camera.

The D3s already has enough iso for me but I'm very interested in AF at f8 as well as improved video.
Neil

Keith Reeder said:

An "official" explanation has been available for a few months:

http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/



Now, whether you buy this explanation...

The fact that Westfall reckons face recognition is a reasonable trade-off for f/8 AF tells me very clearly that the 1Dx is not seen by Canon as its new flagship wildlife camera.

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Thanks, that's some interesting 'spiel'. :-O

Well that it has now replaced the MKIV and given the way Canon have kitted it out and with the likes of a brand new 61 AF point system and 12 FPS I'd say it has to be a flagship wildlife camera. Of course it remains to be seen what we get from the 7D MKII and if that suddenly picks up the AF at f8 feature then that will be a statement of intent (won't happen though) but it still won't match the capabilities of the 1Dx. Thankfully for those with big f4 lenses there's still the option of stacking 1.4x TC's for the times when they otherwise would have used a 2x so really it's not the end of the world. It was a feature most admired by those with f5.6 lenses and wanting to use a 1.4x for a truly hand-held setup with good reach but with the Kenko DGX converters there is at least an option available without the need for taping pins. In other words it was a nice thing while it lasted but I'm sure it's something that we will learn to live without or be able to work around.

With apologies to the Nikon folks for the ongoing thread hijack!



I reckon all of the 1Dx's new features play very nicely to the idea that it's primarily a sport photography/photojournalism camera - sports 'togs being about the only other community for whom great AF is as important as it is to the wildlife community, and journos not needing big, hi-res files, but presumably being able to benefit significantly from face detection-based AF. Face recognition being pushed so hard as a reason for f/8 AF being dropped only makes sense to me if the camera isn't seen by Canon as being their wildlife offering.

Canon is well aware that things like f/8 AF and high pixel density are important to wildlife (especially bird) 'togs - well, those that understand the advantages of high pixel density and know better than to believe the drivel out there about its supposed downsides - and there's waaaay too big a gap between the 1Dx and what any Real World wildlife 'tog would spec as his ideal camera. (Nigel Blake for example, still shoots his 1Ds Mk IIIs in no small way because of their pixel density, and the resolution/detail benefit it provides).

The logical alternative to that view is that Canon has decided - in essence - to abandon or marginalise its pro wildlife customer base, but that's unlikely, given how many of Canon's "ambassadors" shoot wildlife. I know a lot in the pro wildlife community (and the serious amateurs with money to buy into the pro gear) are fretting over this.

Naaah, I just don't buy that this is it for from Canon wildlife shooters, and I reckon the 1Dx is "just" their Olympics camera.

I actually expect that Canon will do a "7D" and introduce another new category of camera, for the wildlife community: maybe a new form factor (smaller and lighter than the current pro bodies, with a smaller built-in grip/battery pack - let's face it, the weight and bulk of the 1D "bricks" isn't always welcome after a long hard day in the field), a new-generation low noise/high pixel sensor - which despite what some people have to say about it is eminently doable (perhaps a very densely-packed FF sensor, so that the twin advantages of FF for better noise, and loads of pixels per duck for cropping, are to hand) - and the 1Dx AF.

The fabled 3D, perhaps...

Keith Reeder said:

With apologies to the Nikon folks for the ongoing thread hijack!

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LOL yeah, whoops!

The thing about 1D weight though (as with all pro DSLR's to keep Nikon in this) is that it acts as a great counter weight to the nose heavy big lenses and gives a much more balanced feel for hand-holding.

Just to round this one off then, we'll just have to wait and see. :t: