A learning Curve (1 Viewer)

punta · Jun 3, 2012

Instead of cluttering up other threads I have started this please help me thread :-O

I went out again on friday for a hour or two and shot off 88 shots and out of that lot the ones below are the best. Most were just binned.

I am finding most photos are well over exposed even though I have the arrow on -1 to -2 and some times even lower. I shoot in manual mode with auto iso or a 800 iso.

Canon 450d and skywatcher scope. The 1.5 teleconverter shots I took were even worse and all were binned.

What am I doing wrong :-C

The only touch I have done is to open in raw, then open in adobe and adjust the levels. I did sharpen and crop the Redshank picture though as it was a good distance out, nothing else.

I am getting better at focusing, its just the gerneral burnt out OE of most of my photos thats getting me down.

Cheers Paul

JvdM · Jun 3, 2012

Hi Paul

Yes there is a bit of a learning curve - and that is what makes it fun and sometimes frustrating.

As you are shooting Canon, may I suggest the following:

1. Dump auto ISO and shoot at a pre-determined ISO eg. 400 or 800 in manual mode. Do some trials (or shoot at various exposure settings when on a shoot) in various lighting conditions and make notes of the shutter speed/ISO and lighting conditions when you edit the photos. Also do this with TC/TN configurations. (To illustrate: with a 1.6x TN in full winter sun at ISO 800, I can shoot at 1/400 base. In shade with the same setup I have to go down to 1/60. From here I use exposure comp for white and dark subjects, normally+-1/3 to 2/3 EV).

2. Set your metering to spot metering. Always meter off the subject. I have found that metering will fluctuate wildly- depending on the background- if you don't and then the shot is over/under exposed.

3. Once you have the ISO/shutter speed combinations under control, you can adjust with a bit of exposure compensation to make good for white/dark subjects. Always check the histogram after the first shot for over/under exposure/blown highlights.

Hope this helps

Best regards

Jaco

Tord · Jun 4, 2012

Hi Paul,

Are you discarding because of incorrect exposure?

My experience is that evaluative metering works best (I use Olympus DSLR), not sure about Canon. The results I achieve show that I should underexpose -1/2 EV on average, with a +/1 EV span. Background and angle of light have quite a large impact. I capture in RAW and fine tune the exposure for each frame, making sure to preserve the highlights from being washed out. I usually set ISO to 400 or 800, sometimes 200 or 1600.

The challenge as I see it is not so much the exposure as getting focus right. I try to bear in the recommendation taking a series while re-focusing for each help, which increases the likelyhood for sharp pictures.

/Tord

punta · Jun 5, 2012

Thanks for the advice guys. Hopefully weather allowing will have a practice again tomorrow and will trying metering off the subject and use a fixed iso.

punta · Jun 6, 2012

Went out for a hour after work, even though the weather was horrid.

Three photos for you views please. All at 800 iso

woodpecker 600mm 1/50 :eek!:
Reed warbler 600mm 1/320 hiding well behing reeds :-C
Duck 1/50 with 1.5 kenko teleconverter. Long way off so pleased with the detail shown. Much harder to focus with a tele on I found.

All in all i seem to have got the exposure much better today on most of my photos, considering it was pouring down and dull.

punta · Jun 6, 2012

A couple more I took with the teleconvertor on at 1/60. Was it my crap focusing or as this bird was very, very twitchy is it just the birds movement.........probably my focusing I reckon, as I was soaked and bloody cold |=(|

Tord · Jun 7, 2012

punta said:
Went out for a hour after work, even though the weather was horrid.

Three photos for you views please. All at 800 iso

woodpecker 600mm 1/50 :eek!:
Reed warbler 600mm 1/320 hiding well behing reeds :-C
Duck 1/50 with 1.5 kenko teleconverter. Long way off so pleased with the detail shown. Much harder to focus with a tele on I found.

All in all i seem to have got the exposure much better today on most of my photos, considering it was pouring down and dull.

Hi,

The Woodpecker is good. Focus spot on, slight shake blur but considering 1/50s you did well.
The Reed Warbler is very good, focus and sharpness, however in my opinion contrast is a bit harsh and colors are over saturated (in the digital lab?)
The duck is technically OK, focus is correct, slightly soft.

The duck

Tord · Jun 7, 2012

punta said:
A couple more I took with the teleconvertor on at 1/60. Was it my crap focusing or as this bird was very, very twitchy is it just the birds movement.........probably my focusing I reckon, as I was soaked and bloody cold |=(|

Hi,

I believe the images are suffering from shake blur and/or motion blur (caused by wind?) rather than OOF.

Cheers
Tord

Paul Corfield · Jun 7, 2012

punta said:
A couple more I took with the teleconvertor on at 1/60. Was it my crap focusing or as this bird was very, very twitchy is it just the birds movement.........probably my focusing I reckon, as I was soaked and bloody cold |=(|

These two are just way out of focus, no sign of movement blur at all. In the first one you can see the green blade of grass on the right which is in the foreground is in focus.

For the others they aren't too bad considering, the Warbler was fine. I think the Woodpecker could have been taken at a higher speed, it's easier to lighten a dark image than to darken blown whites. Once a white has blown out then all detail is lost and can't be retrieved. Sometimes you need to balance up whether to use the teleconverter or just crop the image if it will help with shutter speed. With my 450D I find you can crop quite a lot and often the image can be as good as the teleconverter with the right post processing. I struggle to find things to say about focussing as I've always found it easy. Maybe it's because I've done so much work with teleconverters and taken countless thousands of photos. Something I do a lot is refocus virtually every photo. I just quickly turn the wheel to throw it in and out of focus and with each turn I home in on the sweet spot with smaller and smaller turns.

Paul.

punta · Jun 7, 2012

Thanks Tord and Paul. I very much appreciate the comments. I hope you don’t mind if I keep posting a few photos for you to look at, as I really would like to master this technique eventually :-O

Cheers Paul

punta · Jun 11, 2012

Last pictures with the 450d and the grad with my 40d as the 450 has been sold. Need the money :C
All taken through the conservatory glass window on a dull day.

punta · Jun 11, 2012

Also taken through glass, the blue tits have been auto toned and sharpened in lightroom, just having a mess really

All my photos seem a bit soft, I think its because of shooting through the window with the extra glass reflection.

Paul Corfield · Jun 11, 2012

As far as resolution goes I think I'd have kept the 450D as the ability to crop is one of the most important things on the scope. If you will use the camera for other stuff then it's probably better to keep the 40D.

Never shoot through glass. :t:

Paul.

cango · Jun 12, 2012

Paul Corfield said:
Never shoot through glass. :t:

Paul.

It can be done, but not recommended ;-)

all shot through 3-glass balcony window in winter, with wireless flash outside window from the side. non-telescope photos.

Paul Corfield · Jun 12, 2012

Yes it can be done as your excellent results show. I've done it myself on occasions when I didn't want to scare a bird. As a rule keep the scope as square as possible to the glass to get the sharpest image and to avoid any ghost images. Double glazing is worse and you can get like a faint double image effect when you shoot at an angle to the glass.

Paul.

punta · Jun 14, 2012

Last few days I have been lugging this scope round and it must be me but all my pictures are a bag of ****
I just can’t get on with manual focus, plus the weight + tripod is getting me down. I am used to my 400 5.6 lens hand held just thrown over my shoulder. I see a bird and it’s an instant shot unlike the skywatcher set up.
Its ok for sitting in a hide, but out and about I have found it a pain. I just miss to many opportunities to get a photo, by the time I have the tripod set up and then try and manually focus the bird/opportunity has long gone, so I am going to sell it with all the macro tubes and canon camera attachments. Any one interested please send me a message.

The pro’s are it has a much better reach and with my 1.5 kenko converter it gives a better picture and I am sure in the long run it will be much better then my 400 – its just not my kind of set up when out birding.
A few photos I took, I binned all the others.

Paul Corfield · Jun 15, 2012

It's not for everyone and big lens photography is a specialized area. You would get the same set of problems regarding portability/usability with any camera lens in the 500mm to 800mm region.

Paul.

cango · Jun 17, 2012

Punta: I don't think you should quit just yet. It is as Pauls says, a specialized area, and it takes some adjusting. You will have to adapt and plan differently, than having a "400 5.6 lens hand held just thrown over my shoulder". But as I see it, you could have both. If you plan to walk around, then take only the 400 5.6 with you. And the 600mm reach is hard to beat for that kind of money - and think many scopes are lighter than the equivalent ordinary 600mm lens. (you get AF/lower f-stop but at a much higher price of course).
I took me more than a year and a scope change, before I begun to like the pics I was capturing.
Of course, you do what you feel you have too, but otherwise, I recommend patience. Results will come.

JvdM · Jun 17, 2012

cango said:
Punta: I don't think you should quit just yet. It is as Pauls says, a specialized area, and it takes some adjusting. You will have to adapt and plan differently, than having a "400 5.6 lens hand held just thrown over my shoulder". But as I see it, you could have both. If you plan to walk around, then take only the 400 5.6 with you. And the 600mm reach is hard to beat for that kind of money - and think many scopes are lighter than the equivalent ordinary 600mm lens. (you get AF/lower f-stop but at a much higher price of course).
I took me more than a year and a scope change, before I begun to like the pics I was capturing.
Of course, you do what you feel you have too, but otherwise, I recommend patience. Results will come.

I agree whole-heartedly with Cango and Paul C. Hang in there. Plan your shoots and then take only the equipment required.

It is a bit like golf: the one good shot makes up for a lot of bad ones, and has you coming back for more.

Take some time before making the decision.

Best regards

Jaco

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