thyoloalethe
Well-known member
I doubt some of these will gain widespread acceptance - Platylophus & Eurocephalus in the same genus, for instance.
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Corvoidea (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Daniel Philippe
- Start date
I doubt some of these will gain widespread acceptance - Platylophus & Eurocephalus in the same genus, for instance.
l_raty
laurent raty
In Genbank, Eurocephalus is represented only by two sequences: ND2 and 12s-rRNA (+ a few tens of bp of flanking tRNAs). Platylophus is represented by 6 sequences, but no ND2 and no 12s-rRNA.
If they used only data from GenBank (which is my understanding; the list of accession numbers is also in the supplementary material, I think), they simply cannot have any meaningful estimate of the divergence time between these two taxa.
Richard Klim
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Jønsson et al (my emphasis)...
Perhaps it should be taken only as a potential temporally consistent treatment (given the available data), not as a definitively proposed taxonomy (particularly given that it's only provided as supplementary material)?
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thyoloalethe
Well-known member
Yes, this would be the best way to treat it I guess. I'll try not to get too worked up over a potential "Platylophus anguitimens."
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
For Thyoloalethe
I woudn't say ''this is instance'' but ''this is INSANE ''.
I woudn't say ''this is instance'' but ''this is INSANE ''.
thyoloalethe
Well-known member
Ah yes, I thought that's what you meant! :t:
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
Damn french automatic writing |=@|
Of course, if you understand french.
Of course, if you understand french.
Richard Klim
-------------------------
TiF
John Boyd (TiF):
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/changes.html (1 Jan 2016)
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List18.html (Corvida)
John Boyd (TiF):
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/changes.html (1 Jan 2016)
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List18.html (Corvida)
Acanthis
Well-known member
Many thanks andrew147 B
Only just discovered this paper and was keen to see the suggested generic treatment.
Can foresee difficulties using temporal banding to define generic boundaries in other clades too but I think it was still well worth the attempt
l_raty
laurent raty
Chapter 2: Ultraconserved elements resolve phylogenetic relationships in core Corvoidea passerines.
Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
Kennedy, J. D., Borregaard, M. K., Jønsson, K. A., Holt, B., Fjeldså, J. and Rahbek, C. (2016), Does the colonization of new biogeographic regions influence the diversification and accumulation of clade richness among the Corvides (Aves: Passeriformes)?. Evolution. Accepted Author Manuscript. doi:10.1111/evo.13080
[abstract]
[abstract]
Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
TiF Update May 31, 2017
Corvida: The Corvida tree has been updated based on Moyle et al. (2016). Their arrangement makes a bit more sense to me that the previous one, based primarly on Aggerbeck et al. (2014), Jønsson et al. (2016), and Marki et al. (2015). I like the biogeography a bit better and some families that seemed a bit odd together are no longer together. I'm hoping the changes are more progress than churn. A fuller discussion of the changes is in the taxonomic section of the Corvida I page. Some changes to Passerida based on Moyle et al. may have to wait until I am done with summer travel.
Corvida: The Corvida tree has been updated based on Moyle et al. (2016). Their arrangement makes a bit more sense to me that the previous one, based primarly on Aggerbeck et al. (2014), Jønsson et al. (2016), and Marki et al. (2015). I like the biogeography a bit better and some families that seemed a bit odd together are no longer together. I'm hoping the changes are more progress than churn. A fuller discussion of the changes is in the taxonomic section of the Corvida I page. Some changes to Passerida based on Moyle et al. may have to wait until I am done with summer travel.
Daniel Philippe
Well-known member
Corvoidea - Indo-Pacific
Jønsson K.A., Krabbe Borregaard M., Wisbech Carstensen D., Hansen L.A., Kennedy J.D., Machac A., Marki P.Z., Fjeldså J. & Rahbek C., 2017. Biogeography and biotic assembly of Indo-Pacific corvoid passerine birds. Annu. Rev. Ecol. Evol. Syst.: 48: 231–253.
Abstract
Jønsson K.A., Krabbe Borregaard M., Wisbech Carstensen D., Hansen L.A., Kennedy J.D., Machac A., Marki P.Z., Fjeldså J. & Rahbek C., 2017. Biogeography and biotic assembly of Indo-Pacific corvoid passerine birds. Annu. Rev. Ecol. Evol. Syst.: 48: 231–253.
Abstract
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Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
I'm interested
Markus Lagerqvist
Well-known member
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
IOC Updates Diary April 25
Separate monotypic Family Falcunculidae from Pachycephalidae
Separate Family Cinclosomatidae from Psophodidae
Separate monotypic Family Falcunculidae from Pachycephalidae
Separate Family Cinclosomatidae from Psophodidae
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
Another thing, which one should I use : Keropiidae Kaup, 1855 or Turnagridae Buller, 1888 (1855)?
l_raty
laurent raty
Turnagridae is quite well established, while Keropiinae is certainly not (I have not seen it used in a published work after 1899, actually), hence I would not use the latter to displace the former.
Is Keropia really a synonym of Turnagra ?
(Gray 1840, when introducing this name listed two distinct taxonomic species as being both "typical species", Keropia crassirostris (Lath.) (syn. capensis Sparrman, macularia Quoy & Gaimard) and Keropia striata (Vigors). Calling two species "typical" at the same time does not amount to a valid type designation. Gray 1841 made Keropia a synonym of Turnagra, and listed the same two species as the "typical species" of the latter. Gray 1846 made Keropia "coequal" with Turnagra, and included crassirostris positively and striata with a query; but he did not designate a type. Although it seems quite clear that Gray, at that point, would have regarded crassirostris as the type of the name, he did not make this explicit in print. Meanwhile, an alternative view, which centred on striata, developed elsewhere (see Blyth 1842), and the first actual type designation I have seen is by Bonaparte 1850, who called striata the type.)
Is Keropia really a synonym of Turnagra ?
(Gray 1840, when introducing this name listed two distinct taxonomic species as being both "typical species", Keropia crassirostris (Lath.) (syn. capensis Sparrman, macularia Quoy & Gaimard) and Keropia striata (Vigors). Calling two species "typical" at the same time does not amount to a valid type designation. Gray 1841 made Keropia a synonym of Turnagra, and listed the same two species as the "typical species" of the latter. Gray 1846 made Keropia "coequal" with Turnagra, and included crassirostris positively and striata with a query; but he did not designate a type. Although it seems quite clear that Gray, at that point, would have regarded crassirostris as the type of the name, he did not make this explicit in print. Meanwhile, an alternative view, which centred on striata, developed elsewhere (see Blyth 1842), and the first actual type designation I have seen is by Bonaparte 1850, who called striata the type.)
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
Ok. Thks. I really wanted to make sure before making any changes.
