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Thinking about digiscoping - some questions (1 Viewer)

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
Having sold my DSLR birding lens I am pondering on having a crack at digiscoping. I have a couple of basic questions to start with:-

1) Is a camera like the Canon 40D any good for dscoping or would it be better to buy a compact camera?

2) If the 40D is OK then what sort of lens is needed for the camera or do you recommend attaching the scope directly to the Camera ?

3) What would be the sort of min price/quality scope that you would need for reasonable results?

Thanks in advance.
 
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My advise is to first take the longest lens you still have, set your camera to FULL Manual Exposure and MANUAL focus and go out and shoot some birds. Load them up on your PC and check focus, etc. It will soon become apparent if you are happy shooting this way or not. I could never get an acceptable hit rate, ~10% in full manual. Went on to compact digicam on a fieldscope, but found it really is too cumbersom to lug around a tripod kit chasing bird. Hit rate improved though due to the semi-AF and greater magnification.

Now I shoot a 300m VR f2.8 and a 2x TC as a walkaround kit and am happy as a pig in slop. Just more fun to work on my stalking and fieldcraft techniques.
 
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Having sold my DSLR birding lens I am pondering on having a crack at digiscoping. I have a couple of basic questions to start with:-

1) Is a camera like the Canon 40D any good for dscoping or would it be better to buy a compact camera?

2) If the 40D is OK then what sort of lens is needed for the camera or do you recommend attaching the scope directly to the Camera ?

3) What would be the sort of min price/quality scope that you would need for reasonable results?

Thanks in advance.

Dear Roy,

What would your budget be for acquiring this setup? Judging from your earlier posts in this forum I take it that you would like to acquire as lightweight a setup as possible.

I'll answer the first query in the affirmative as I've seen great photos taken by a DSLR attached to a scope, either directly or by attaching a lens (usually a prime 24mm to 50mm) to the scope's eyepiece. However, if you wish to acquire a super-compact scope (e.g. the Nikon ED50), this would result in a very back-heavy combo that may cause undue stress to scopes of that category.

In the event that weight is a concern, the new Coolpix P300 is a great camera for digiscoping, especially if attached to Nikon scopes via a dedicated FSB-8 adapter. It is small and easily mates with the Nikon ED50 via the said adapter. In fact, its shooting rate at 7fps for JPEG is better than the 40D! See http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=195746 for more info. personally I would say that this combo gives you the best cost and weight savings as the ED50 is Nikon's most affordable scope.

If you intend to attach your 40D directly to a scope, the Nikon ED78 (no longer in production, but available on eBay) or ED82 can give you a long 1000mm MF lens that is a tad bit slow at F13.3. My discussions with fellow member Tord on how to connect a EOS 600D DSLR to that scope can be seen on this thread http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=200484.

In the event that you have sufficient cash, I recommend the latest scopes from Nikon (i.e. the EDG85) and Kowa that can accommodate both DSLRs or compact cameras. Both are not cheap. The EDG85 has a zoom DSLR attachment called the FSA-L2. More info here http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=180382.

The Kowa combo has interchangeable DSLR adapters and eyepieces. It can be seen here http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=191758.

Or you could go for a Swarovski combo instead. see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=77754&highlight=TLS800.

Hope this helps! :t:

Hor Kee
 
I.

I can second what Hor Kee writes, and would like to add a few comments.

The setup with the Nikon ED82 scope has a focal length of 1200 mm, and F12.8. F12.8 is not that great, manual focus through the viewfinder can be tricky, expect less than 100% keepers. It is not impossible though, when you get it right the results can be excellent, with high detail rendering, good colors and pleasant Bokeh.

The lack of support for exposure control e.g. AV mode is not generally true, it depends on the camera brand and model used together with the DSLR adapter (*). As an example, I use the Nikon 7468 DSLR adapter (discontinued but can still be sourced on E-Bay) and Olympus E-system bodies. The connection is done through a Nikon F mount-Olympus 4/3 adapter ring. I can confirm this setup supports exposure control, have tried with several bodies.

Hope this helps
/Tord

(*) What I refer to discussions (by Nikon users) that I read, about certain Nikon DSLR bodies used on Nikon scopes and some bodies intentionally designed in a way that exposure control is intentionally disabled to have the customer acquire more expensive gear. I can see if I can find these threads.
 
Now I shoot a 300m VR f2.8 and a 2x TC as a walkaround kit and am happy as a pig in slop.
I have just got rid of my 300mm f2.8 I.S. lens which I also used with a 2x tc - great lens but I got fed-up with the weight and have decided to do more birding rather than photography but would still like the option of record shots which is why I am asking about digiscoping.
 
Dear Roy,

What would your budget be for acquiring this setup? Judging from your earlier posts in this forum I take it that you would like to acquire as lightweight a setup as possible.

I'll answer the first query in the affirmative as I've seen great photos taken by a DSLR attached to a scope, either directly or by attaching a lens (usually a prime 24mm to 50mm) to the scope's eyepiece. However, if you wish to acquire a super-compact scope (e.g. the Nikon ED50), this would result in a very back-heavy combo that may cause undue stress to scopes of that category.

In the event that weight is a concern, the new Coolpix P300 is a great camera for digiscoping, especially if attached to Nikon scopes via a dedicated FSB-8 adapter. It is small and easily mates with the Nikon ED50 via the said adapter. In fact, its shooting rate at 7fps for JPEG is better than the 40D! See http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=195746 for more info. personally I would say that this combo gives you the best cost and weight savings as the ED50 is Nikon's most affordable scope.

If you intend to attach your 40D directly to a scope, the Nikon ED78 (no longer in production, but available on eBay) or ED82 can give you a long 1000mm MF lens that is a tad bit slow at F13.3. My discussions with fellow member Tord on how to connect a EOS 600D DSLR to that scope can be seen on this thread http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=200484.

In the event that you have sufficient cash, I recommend the latest scopes from Nikon (i.e. the EDG85) and Kowa that can accommodate both DSLRs or compact cameras. Both are not cheap. The EDG85 has a zoom DSLR attachment called the FSA-L2. More info here http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=180382.

The Kowa combo has interchangeable DSLR adapters and eyepieces. It can be seen here http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=191758.

Or you could go for a Swarovski combo instead. see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=77754&highlight=TLS800.

Hope this helps! :t:

Hor Kee
Thank you Hor Kee, I will read the links you have given :t:
 
I.

I can second what Hor Kee writes, and would like to add a few comments.

The setup with the Nikon ED82 scope has a focal length of 1200 mm, and F12.8. F12.8 is not that great, manual focus through the viewfinder can be tricky, expect less than 100% keepers. It is not impossible though, when you get it right the results can be excellent, with high detail rendering, good colors and pleasant Bokeh.

The lack of support for exposure control e.g. AV mode is not generally true, it depends on the camera brand and model used together with the DSLR adapter (*). As an example, I use the Nikon 7468 DSLR adapter (discontinued but can still be sourced on E-Bay) and Olympus E-system bodies. The connection is done through a Nikon F mount-Olympus 4/3 adapter ring. I can confirm this setup supports exposure control, have tried with several bodies.

Hope this helps
/Tord

(*) What I refer to discussions (by Nikon users) that I read, about certain Nikon DSLR bodies used on Nikon scopes and some bodies intentionally designed in a way that exposure control is intentionally disabled to have the customer acquire more expensive gear. I can see if I can find these threads.

Thanks Tord :t: , there does not appear to be any one method or combo for digiscoping. I will just have to work through all the pro's and cons.
How do you work out focal lengths and f stops when digiscoping?
 
As you probably know Roy I have had quite a bit of experience with this sort of thing and can comment on how it compares vs a 300mm 2x combo. ;)

I've tried the DSLR mounted straight on the back of a scope and didn't much care for it although what people seem to forget is that for manual focusing sod the viewfinder and switch to live view and the magnify function, spot on every time! The price of those adapters though make it counter productive in my view and even on a big scope your rig is back heavy, a rail is almost a must (more money).

In my experience and knowing how you want to do things I'd suggest go for a good compact camera but one with ideally no more than 4x optical zoom, they're cheaper to buy and so allows you to spend more money on the scope/eyepiece (like lenses the better the scope the better the IQ) and of course it means less overall weight too! Also compact cameras will allow you more reach too if you use them with higher mag. ep's or a zoom, I've got decent shots with my zoom set to 60x at ranges even a 7D+800mm L with a 2xTC can only dream of. Downsides are be prepared for a lowish hit rate and high ISO's (even 400) are pretty much out of the question so you need good light for decent shutter speeds. Patience and perseverance will eventually pay off but be prepared for a rocky start.

I think a good 60mmish obj. ED/APO/Fluorite scope with either a zoom or a 30x WA would suit your needs, depending on your birding preferences. Also as you'll be out and about with it you'll want an angled scope so you don't have to have the tripod too high. Also get a good fluid video head, like the Manfrotto HDV ones. Mind's gone blank now so I can't think of 'owt else but anything you wanna specifically ask Roy I'll try to answer.
 
I have just got rid of my 300mm f2.8 I.S. lens which I also used with a 2x tc - great lens but I got fed-up with the weight and have decided to do more birding rather than photography but would still like the option of record shots which is why I am asking about digiscoping.

That's funny as most folks start out digiscoping to avoid spending $$$ for a proper lens/DSLR!

First let me say I would not recommend a scope smaller than 80mm aperture. Small sensor cameras need all the light gathering you can give them.

That said, the smallest/lightest digiscoping kit you can get is a Nikon ED50 w/16x Wide DS lens, Nikon FSB-8 camera adapater for Nikon P300, and a 3x Hoodman style loupe. This will give you a practical effective focal length range of 800mm- 1600mm, ~f4-f5.7. With a suitable tripod and video head you will be ~3kg total. On a sunny day you should get decent record shots for the web or small 5x7 prints for targets <40m distance.

Frankly having been up and down this path many times, I would prefer to shoot a superzoom bridge camera like the Fuji HS20.
 
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Thanks Tord :t: , there does not appear to be any one method or combo for digiscoping. I will just have to work through all the pro's and cons.
How do you work out focal lengths and f stops when digiscoping?
Hi,

I looked up the specifications in the Nikon digiscoping product pages. Refer to the bottom of this page
Actually, Hor Kee was right regarding the focal length hen using the ED82A as lens. It is 1000 mm.

On Nikon bodies it would be "35 mm equivalent" 1500 mm
On 4/3 bodies the "35mm equivalent" would be 2000 mm
On Canon I guess it would be 1600 mm (not sure regarding the Canon crop factor, please check with Canon people)

I have seen F12.8 mentioned elsewhere, but the Nikon page specifies F13. Let's say it is F13.

/Tord
 
As you probably know Roy I have had quite a bit of experience with this sort of thing and can comment on how it compares vs a 300mm 2x combo. ;)

I've tried the DSLR mounted straight on the back of a scope and didn't much care for it although what people seem to forget is that for manual focusing sod the viewfinder and switch to live view and the magnify function, spot on every time! The price of those adapters though make it counter productive in my view and even on a big scope your rig is back heavy, a rail is almost a must (more money).

Hi,

Regarding the price tag I don't have the complete picture, except for the adapters from Nikon for the Fieledscopes.
- The FSA-L1 has $450 price tag (B&H).
- The 7468 (predecessor) has a $99 price tag (e-bay). I was hinted about this one by Hor-Kee :t:

Regarding the weight balance, I am inclined to agree. The rig is quite long. Luckily Olympus E-System E520/E620 bodies (that I use) are light weight and my setup works fine on my Manfrotto tripod with a standard head that I use for the scope, without need for additional rail - but in general an extra rail and possibly a gimbal head would be a good idea.

My setup can be seen below.

What has not been discussed in this thread are two other aspects.
1. The scope can no longer be used for its main application area - bird spotting. Using a compact camera and a swinging bracket does not have this disadvantage, and the cost adder should be comparable or less than the DSLR adapter (depends on what camera you pick, functional and good quality third party brackets can be sourced for $50-100).

2. Most people prefer an angled scope for comfort, but this increases the difficult when photographing (finding the subject is more difficult).

/Tord
 

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Hi,

Regarding the price tag I don't have the complete picture, except for the adapters from Nikon for the Fieledscopes.
- The FSA-L1 has $450 price tag (B&H).
- The 7468 (predecessor) has a $99 price tag (e-bay). I was hinted about this one by Hor-Kee :t:

Regarding the weight balance, I am inclined to agree. The rig is quite long. Luckily Olympus E-System E520/E629 bodies are light weight and my setup works fine on my Manfrotto tripod with a standard head that I use for the scope, without need for additional rail - but in general an extra rail and possibly a gimbal head would be a good idea.

My setup can be seen below.

What has not been discussed in this thread are two other aspects.
1. The scope can no longer be used for its main application area - bird spotting. Using a compact camera and a swinging bracket does not have this disadvantage, and the cost adder should be comparable or less than the DSLR adapter (depends on what camera you pick, functional and good quality third party brackets can be sourced for $50-100).

2. Most people prefer an angled scope for comfort, but this increases the difficult when photographing (finding the subject is more difficult).

/Tord

I use straight scopes so the weight aspect was even worse for me. Have to disagree with the 'need' for a larger obj. scope. Yeah it certainly helps but not essential (I've owned and scoped with both smaller and larger ones), there's loads of great scoping done out there with the smaller ones. However that said the weight difference between smaller and larger scopes isn't a big one and the advantages of a larger one are certainly there. And even a large obj. scope will feel like a feather compared to humping around a 300mm.

This is my lot http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1280981&postcount=524
 
Hi Roy, I think the first question you should have asked yourself is what scope before asking if a 40D could be used becuase with some ingenuity any camera can be used for digiscoping but decent reults will require a good Hd/Flourite/Prominar scope.
 
Nikon 7468 adapter

Hello Tord,

I just have a simple question, i to have a 7468 Nikon adapter, is it the Olympus E-1 camera any good for this adapter? I cant aford to buy any expensive camera...

Many thanks for your help.

Helder

I.

I can second what Hor Kee writes, and would like to add a few comments.

The setup with the Nikon ED82 scope has a focal length of 1200 mm, and F12.8. F12.8 is not that great, manual focus through the viewfinder can be tricky, expect less than 100% keepers. It is not impossible though, when you get it right the results can be excellent, with high detail rendering, good colors and pleasant Bokeh.

The lack of support for exposure control e.g. AV mode is not generally true, it depends on the camera brand and model used together with the DSLR adapter (*). As an example, I use the Nikon 7468 DSLR adapter (discontinued but can still be sourced on E-Bay) and Olympus E-system bodies. The connection is done through a Nikon F mount-Olympus 4/3 adapter ring. I can confirm this setup supports exposure control, have tried with several bodies.

Hope this helps
/Tord

(*) What I refer to discussions (by Nikon users) that I read, about certain Nikon DSLR bodies used on Nikon scopes and some bodies intentionally designed in a way that exposure control is intentionally disabled to have the customer acquire more expensive gear. I can see if I can find these threads.
 
Hello Tord,

I just have a simple question, i to have a 7468 Nikon adapter, is it the Olympus E-1 camera any good for this adapter? I cant aford to buy any expensive camera...

Many thanks for your help.

Helder

Hi Helder,

I use both the E620 and E520 and both work fine with the 7468. You will need a 4/3 to Nikon adapter ring but that is not an expensive accessory.

One good thing with the E520/E620 is the body in-built IS that I believe helps in reducing shake caused by the mirror slap.

I cannot make any statememt regarding the E1, though, I have no experience using it.

/Tord

Below are some samples showing what the E620 + 7468 + ED82A can deliver.

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/389695/ppuser/40738

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/378014/ppuser/40738
 
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