Gull help please (1 Viewer)

Jasonbirder · Jul 20, 2004

Too me the legs look how Yellow legs in shadow under the body would appear - look carefully there`s definately a yellow caste to themComparison with bill not the same - its not in shadow and its a far brighter yellow anyway

very boring banned member · Jul 21, 2004

With these photos I do not think twice to write down Larus argentatus (legs = same grey as back

). Yellow-legged gulls have yellow legs, and clearly these pixels can show yellow as it is on bill.

Binocularface · Jul 21, 2004

Karwin said:
With these photos I do not think twice to write down Larus argentatus (legs = same grey as back ). Yellow-legged gulls have yellow legs, and clearly these pixels can show yellow as it is on bill.

Are you basing your ID of these pics on 'apparent' leg colour? What about mantle tones, head structure etc?

I am quite happy to accept that this bird may be argentatus but I would be hard pushed to base identification purely on leg colour especially as this is difficult to assess in the images provided!

Jane Turner · Jul 21, 2004

S*d the leg colour - it has the head and build of a micaheliis!

Allen · Jul 21, 2004

Going off on a slight tangent!!!!.....when is the Helm guide to Gulls of Europe, North America and Asia due for rerelease after all the original problems and does anyone have opinions on it? Would it help with this type of id problem (esp the leg colour?)

StevieEvans · Jul 21, 2004

Hello
Tristan. i saw 'this' bird this morning at P.Carlisle area.

Im not a technical birder by a long stretch & put it down as a 'probable' YLGull.

Mantle colour paler than a British LBB, of which there were 2 nearby, but darker than a Herring gull which there was one of nearby.

Appeared long winged at rest.

A long billed individual.

Legs were a dirt covered pinky - yellow colour

Whatever it was/is it was a runner up in terms of the bird/willdlife of the area....

Roadside hunting Barn Owl, an Adult Male Peregring terrorising the waders at close range, 2 feeding Greenshank, 2 Whimbrel, 2 Common Sands(1 Very Pale) alongwith an Otter lolloping over the mudbanks & a Fox in a roadside field. Also Mergansers in the channel with Tawny Owl, Sedge Warbler & Lesser Whitethroat all on call.
#Also an escaped? non tame? wary feral? unringed wild? Ruddy Shelduck.... :h?:

Only an hour & a half away & somewhere ive never been previously.

Stevie.

Nightranger · Jul 21, 2004

Tristan R said:
Hi

I'm hoping someome can help confirm the ID of this gull please! I was quite confident of ID in the field, but am beginning to doubt myself after looking at my (low quality) images!
Any help appreciated!

Regards
Tristan

At the risk of going against the flow, I saved the image and tried playing with light and the legs are definitely pink. Also, the eye is nothing like so well defined as it should be for YLG although I concede this point due to the image quality. However, the white patches seem too large for YLG in this case and I would go with Karwin and stick my head out to say argentatus.

Edward woodwood · Jul 21, 2004

to paraphrase Jane 'Sod the photos'

if the mantle colour was Common like in the field and the legs were yellow, i think we're wasting time discussing a poor quality pic - structure of the bird also appears YL and Stevie Evans also had it down as YL from field views too......

Hotspur · Jul 21, 2004

I may come across as a right egit here but why in the database has it got YLG as Larus Cachinnans yet throughout this thread it has been referred to as micaheliis? Im a newly reaquainted birder and thus dont have any up to date books, (Collins from 10 years ago). Any info would be gratefully received.

James

Edward woodwood · Jul 21, 2004

two subspecies James, cachinnans and michahellis

cachinnans in the nominate race, michahellis therefore correctly referred to as L. c. michahellis

if they are split into two they will be:
Yellow-legged Gull L. michahellis
Caspain Gull L. cachinans

Binocularface · Jul 21, 2004

Hi

Thanks to everyone for the various responses to my enquiry.
After looking at the images over and over again and discussing the bird with various people on and offline I have to say that although the bird looks superficially good for Yellow-legged Gull it probably is not one!
The head/bill structure, mantle colouration general structure etc all seem OK for Yellow-legged Gull. However the bird is obviously an adult bird, so the leg colour should of course be much brighter (the bird did have yellow tinged legs visible in the field). The legs to seem a bit to short for yellow-legged.
The . The reduced white on the primaries (although superficially good for yellow-legged) may be explained away by wear (as pointed out by a friend after looking at the images).

However to call or identify this bird an argentatus Herring Gull by default would in my opinion be unwise. I think leg colouration, mantle colouration and general structure are not particularly good for argentatus.

Perhaps with the gull colony at Walney Island not to far away (as the gull sp flies ;-) ) a Herring Gull x Lesser black-backed Gull hybrid may perhaps be more likely!

I guess I should have been less hasty at identification in the field (though it was distant!).

Aren't gulls great ;-)

Regards
Tristan

Binocularface · Jul 21, 2004

StevieEvans said:
Whatever it was/is it was a runner up in terms of the bird/willdlife of the area....

Roadside hunting Barn Owl, an Adult Male Peregring terrorising the waders at close range, 2 feeding Greenshank, 2 Whimbrel, 2 Common Sands(1 Very Pale) alongwith an Otter lolloping over the mudbanks & a Fox in a roadside field. Also Mergansers in the channel with Tawny Owl, Sedge Warbler & Lesser Whitethroat all on call.

Hi Stevie

It sounds like you had a good morning! The Bowness-on-Solway/Port Carlisle area is superb, always something good to see. The whole area is also underwatched.

StevieEvans said:
#Also an escaped? non tame? wary feral? unringed wild? Ruddy Shelduck.... :h?:

Well, apparently it has turned up at the right time of year for a 'genuine vagrant'! To be fair when it first arrived it looked pretty 'tired' as if it had flown a very long way (possibly)! For the rest of the day it was feeding very voraciously (compared to the following day when it seemed more 'relaxed'). I guess we will never know its origins, but who cares it is a cracking looking bird!

I have attached some pics of this bird taken on the 19th July- they are slightly better quality than my gull pics......honest!

Regards
Tristan Reid

Stephen Dunstan · Jul 21, 2004

Allen said:
Going off on a slight tangent!!!!.....when is the Helm guide to Gulls of Europe, North America and Asia due for rerelease after all the original problems and does anyone have opinions on it? Would it help with this type of id problem (esp the leg colour?)

No it wouldn't, it says the legs of a summer adult should be bright yellow (no surprise there then!). This is the first edition, the reprint isn't out yet.

Stephen.

pauco · Jul 21, 2004

My opinion Larus-argentatus, based on build and head structure + bill.
bert.

Swift · Jul 21, 2004

Tristan R said:
.

Well, apparently it has turned up at the right time of year for a 'genuine vagrant'! To be fair when it first arrived it looked pretty 'tired' .

So would you if you had spent all day fighting youre way out of a cage......

skuas2000 · Jul 21, 2004

Tristan R said:
Are you basing your ID of these pics on 'apparent' leg colour? What about mantle tones, head structure etc?

I am quite happy to accept that this bird may be argentatus but I would be hard pushed to base identification purely on leg colour especially as this is difficult to assess in the images provided!

Tristan, What colour was the orbital ring? B

Quark5 · Jul 21, 2004

Jane Turner said:
S*d the leg colour - it has the head and build of a micaheliis!

Looked in my reference books; I think your spot on, the heads being identical. Thanks for improving my knowledge.

Binocularface · Jul 21, 2004

skuas2000 said:
Tristan, What colour was the orbital ring? B

Not sure as the bird was fairly distant and the light was poor!

Brian Stone · Jul 22, 2004

Sorry to come in rather late on this. The one thing that struck me about this bird was that the primary projection looked rather short for michahellis/cachinnans from the pics. This might be something to do with the angle but from the photo I wouldn't put it down as YLG. We have an estimated 20 michahellis of various ages around the rubbish tips of Peterborough at the moment. At this time of year they are noticably more attenuated than other Herring Gulls.

mountain man · Jul 22, 2004

Gulls already??? Come on, it's only July!

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