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Pipit spp, Worlds End , Wales ,UK , in May (2 Viewers)

albional

Well-known member
Meadow or Tree Pipit

Not great photos but confirmation would be appreciated
 

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According to a recent article on Birding Frontiers British Breeding Meadow Pipits do not have a supercilium a Tree Pipit does have a noticeable supercilium.

It is not entirely true to say that British breeding Meadow Pipits do not have a supercilium at this time of year. It is fairer to say that Meadow might have a faint supercilium. I have attached a photo of a Meadow Pipit taken at Cley on 10th May 2013 and it is a definite Meadow Pipit as it was calling and other features clearly support it as a Meadow Pipit. The photos on this thread are of Meadow Pipit as the large pale unbroken eye-ring is not shown by any Tree Pipits and the flank streaks are too heavy for a Tree Pipit. I also don't see an obvious supercilium so that would again support Meadow Pipit.

Cheers

Roy
 

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It is not entirely true to say that British breeding Meadow Pipits do not have a supercilium at this time of year. It is fairer to say that Meadow might have a faint supercilium. I have attached a photo of a Meadow Pipit taken at Cley on 10th May 2013 and it is a definite Meadow Pipit as it was calling and other features clearly support it as a Meadow Pipit. The photos on this thread are of Meadow Pipit as the large pale unbroken eye-ring is not shown by any Tree Pipits and the flank streaks are too heavy for a Tree Pipit. I also don't see an obvious supercilium so that would again support Meadow Pipit.

Cheers

Roy

Hi Roy,
Can you rule out a migrant Meadow Pipit going up to Scandanavia or further East, as Wheatear migrants are still moving through at the end of May.

John
 
Hi Roy,
Can you rule out a migrant Meadow Pipit going up to Scandanavia or further East, as Wheatear migrants are still moving through at the end of May.

John

Hi John,

Scandinavian and birds further east are the same as British birds, i.e. nominate pratensis and so would be identical in plumage. Traditionally if another Meadow Pipit sub-species is recognised it is whistleri from the north-west of Europe and I assume that this is what is being mentioned in the BirdingFrontiers article as Icelandic Meadow Pipit but I haven't read it thoroughly. As I recall this bird was song-flighting as well so I would expect it to be a resident. I have seen other birds in the summer with supercilia similar to this bird's also in Norfolk.

Meadow Pipit is a shorter-range migrant compared to Northern Wheatear and its migration period starts earlier and finishes earlier but it is possible that this bird is an Icelandic bird I suppose, but Meadow Pipits can have supercilia like this in the summer. Icelandic birds are very hard to prove and requires them to have wing measurements longer than the longest nominate's wing so can only be done sometimes in the hand as there is large overlap in the wing measurments of both sub-species if indeed they are sub-species and not just a clinal variation.

Cheers

Roy
 
I'd be very surprised if Martin said UK Meadow Pipits have no supercilium - Icelandic birds tend to have stronger supers than UKbirds, but Meadows are amazingly variable. The montage below has Meadows facing one way and Trees the other. Meadows tend to look "gormless", with an unbroken eye ring. Trees tend to have a stronger eye-stripe which breaks the eye ring, shorter stronger bills and when present the pale patch on the rear of the ear coverts is a give away.
 

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Note I wrote Birding frontiers article post 14
Many of the arcticles on Birding Frontiers are not written by Martin Garner, but by a variety of experienecd bird watchers.
The Icelandic Meadow Pipit arcticle was written by Clive Mckay and Ben Porter.
 
Pipits

I'd be very surprised if Martin said UK Meadow Pipits have no supercilium - Icelandic birds tend to have stronger supers than UKbirds, but Meadows are amazingly variable. The montage below has Meadows facing one way and Trees the other. Meadows tend to look "gormless", with an unbroken eye ring. Trees tend to have a stronger eye-stripe which breaks the eye ring, shorter stronger bills and when present the pale patch on the rear of the ear coverts is a give away.

Jane
Thanks for this very informative response , I never fail to be impressed by the wealth of knowledge and indeed the willingness to pass this on and assist less experienced birders such as myself .
 
The article on Birding frontiers doesn't actually say that British meadow pipits don't have a supercilium. It says - and sincere apologies if copying and pasting is against the rules:

These birds are good contenders for Icelandic Mipits. My ringing work has focussed on autumn birds (when they’re easy to catch). At that time of year I consider a yellowish wash to the upperparts along with a nice clear supercilium to be diagnostic of “non-British” birds.

So Clive Mackay considers a nice clear super would indicate a non british bird. That indicates to me that British birds can have a super, just a less 'nice and clear' one.

Also, I'm not really sure why we're discussing this as the bird is a clear meadow pipit.
 
The article on Birding frontiers doesn't actually say that British meadow pipits don't have a supercilium. It says - and sincere apologies if copying and pasting is against the rules:

These birds are good contenders for Icelandic Mipits. My ringing work has focussed on autumn birds (when they’re easy to catch). At that time of year I consider a yellowish wash to the upperparts along with a nice clear supercilium to be diagnostic of “non-British” birds.

So Clive Mackay considers a nice clear super would indicate a non british bird. That indicates to me that British birds can have a super, just a less 'nice and clear' one.

Also, I'm not really sure why we're discussing this as the bird is a clear meadow pipit.

Should be refered to as British Breeding Meadow Pipits as all these types from Iceland, Scandanavia, pass through Britain some winter and could be called British.
Roy's photo showing supercilum cley Norfolk Roy states that
I have seen other birds in the summer with supercilia similar to this bird's also in Norfolk.

Norfolk is a well known migrant area.
Discussions move on as does bird I.D, a few years ago there was only Herring Gull, now there is also Yellow -legged Gull and Caspian Gull, if people did not observe and discuss. There still would only be Herring Gull.
 
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