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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 12:09   #1
Peter Kovalik
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AOU 2018 Checklist proposals

Proposals 2018-A

2018-A-1: Transfer Japanese Bush-Warbler from Cettia to Horornis
2018-A-2: Elevate Automolus ochrolaemus exsertus to species rank
2018-A-3: Transfer Geothlypis aequinoctialis chiriquensis from Masked Yellowthroat G. aequinoctialis to Olive-crowned Yellowthroat G. semiflava
2018-A-4: Lump Cherrie's Tanager Ramphocelus costaricensis with Passerini's Tanager R. passerinii
2018-A-5: Change the English name of Rock Pigeon Columba livia back to Rock Dove
2018-A-6: Treat extralimital Elaenia brachyptera as a separate species from Lesser Elaenia E. chiriquensis
2018-A-7: Treat extralimital Henicorhina anachoreta as a separate species from Gray-breasted Wood-Wren H. leucophrys
2018-A-8: Split extralimital Mitrephanes olivaceus from Tufted Flycatcher M. phaeocercus, and extralimital Fluvicola albiventer from Pied Water-Tyrant F. pica
2018-A-9: Split Luscinia to recognize Larvivora, Calliope, and Cyanecula
2018-A-10: Transfer Lesser Whitethroat from Sylvia to Curruca

[pdf]
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 14:41   #2
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Blah...Rock Dove is a stupid name. almost everyone I know would look at you funny if you talked about Rock Doves. Even birders generally use the term pigeons with each other. If your going to change the name, change it to Common Pigeon or something.
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 15:03   #3
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Ah hemmm....

Actually I do say Rock Dove.
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 15:18   #4
LeNomenclatoriste
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''Cettia'' pallidipes and ''C'' major need two new genera
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 15:21   #5
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''Cettia'' pallidipes and ''C'' major need two new genera
Neither are within the NACC area, and so not pertinent to this proposal.
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 15:59   #6
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Blah...Rock Dove is a stupid name. almost everyone I know would look at you funny if you talked about Rock Doves. Even birders generally use the term pigeons with each other. If your going to change the name, change it to Common Pigeon or something.
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Ah hemmm....

Actually I do say Rock Dove.
Rock Dove for me too - it's just AOU adopting the European name for a European species. Quite right and proper
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 16:26   #7
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''Cettia'' pallidipes and ''C'' major need two new genera
Not necessarily. IOC merges castaneocoronata into Cettia and pallidipes (plus Neumann's Warbler) into Urosphena. HBW & Birdlife keep Neumann's in Hemitesia and puts pallidipes there instead.
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 16:38   #8
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Not necessarily. IOC merges castaneocoronata into Cettia and pallidipes (plus Neumann's Warbler) into Urosphena. HBW & Birdlife keep Neumann's in Hemitesia and puts pallidipes there instead.
In my opinion, it's a mistake. These species are very distinct in shape, color. I don't follow their combination.
Oligura, a very small, ecaudate, bird with yellowish green feathering and rufous head without eyebrows, and '' C'' pallidipes, very similar to true Cettia but so different from Hemitesia.
Moreover, I use Horeites for brunnifrons
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 17:23   #9
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Rock Dove for me too - it's just AOU adopting the European name for a European species. Quite right and proper
Well, it is a Eurasian and African species, and I'd guess its native range in Asia exceeds that in Europe in a square km sense.

That said, "Rock Dove" does have a good degree of historical propriety as well as international usage... and at least in my corner of the U.S. people seem to understand what a Rock Dove is or was. I may be in the minority by preferring how the IOC handles it - the wild birds are Rock Doves and the others are Feral Pigeons... much like the relationship between Red Junglefowl and chickens.

But I can't wait to see the forum's reaction after the AOS argues that Rock Pigeon is different from a Rock-Pigeon, and so thereby is a nonissue.
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 18:25   #10
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That said, "Rock Dove" does have a good degree of historical propriety as well as international usage... and at least in my corner of the U.S. people seem to understand what a Rock Dove is or was. I may be in the minority by preferring how the IOC handles it - the wild birds are Rock Doves and the others are Feral Pigeons... much like the relationship between Red Junglefowl and chickens.
Yep, agree! Checked in my American guides, it's Rock Dove in both my Nat Geogs (2nd & 3rd eds) and Sibley (1st ed), so this 'Rock Pigeon' thing must be quite recent?

Not a minority at all - virtually every birder in UK uses Rock Dove for wild and Feral Pigeon for tame

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But I can't wait to see the forum's reaction after the AOS argues that Rock Pigeon is different from a Rock-Pigeon, and so thereby is a nonissue.
You've lost me there! What's it being compared with?
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 18:53   #11
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You've lost me there! What's it being compared with?
The argument is that the English name "Rock Pigeon" is "pre-occupied" by the two species of rock-pigeons (genus Petrophassa) of Australia. I don't see a problem, personally, as the hyphen does make a difference between Rock Pigeon and Rock-Pigeon.

Columba livia was changed to Rock Pigeon because other species in Columba are universally known as "pigeons"

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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 19:25   #12
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Best name might be the one actually used: Wild Pigeon and City Pigeon.

Somehow nobody thought of that before.
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 20:04   #13
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But I can't wait to see the forum's reaction after the AOS argues that Rock Pigeon is different from a Rock-Pigeon, and so thereby is a nonissue.
If you want to laugh/cry have a look at SACC proposal 702:

http://www.museum.lsu.edu/~Remsen/SACCprop702.htm
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 21:27   #14
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In London and the south-east we call feral pigeons "Flying Rats" (and Grey Squirrels are "Tree Rats") (or should that be Flying-rat and Tree-rat, as they are not related?) And what have the SACC got against Ben T. Bill?
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 22:08   #15
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Proposals 2018-A
2018-A-5: Change the English name of Rock Pigeon Columba livia back to Rock Dove
Hooray! One pointless name change undone, n to go. . ..
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 23:24   #16
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The argument is that the English name "Rock Pigeon" is "pre-occupied" by the two species of rock-pigeons (genus Petrophassa) of Australia. I don't see a problem, personally, as the hyphen does make a difference between Rock Pigeon and Rock-Pigeon.
In text, but not in speech . . .

And IOC don't use that barbaric grammar error of "Rock-Pigeon" either

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Columba livia was changed to Rock Pigeon because other species in Columba are universally known as "pigeons"
Except not the type species of Columba, which happens to be Columba oenas (Stock Dove). So you could argue that all the Columba species should be called "Xxxxx Dove" to match the type species
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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 23:41   #17
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Of pigeons and doves . . .

There was a young man from Dijon
Who had no time at all for religion
He said, "as for me
I detest them all three
The Father, the Son and the Pigeon"


(Trad., Anon.)

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Old Saturday 6th January 2018, 00:08   #18
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Proposals 2018-A

.....

2018-A-9: Split Luscinia to recognize Larvivora, Calliope, and Cyanecula

[pdf]
From p.25:
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(4) Tarsiger Hodgson, 1845 The fourth clade consisted of five species not recorded from the NACC area; this clade received strong support (100 BS, 1.0 PP) and has been widely accepted.
This is surely wrong? Isn't Red-flanked Bluetail Tarsiger cyanurus already on the NACC list, already with that scientific name?
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Old Monday 8th January 2018, 03:19   #19
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"This is surely wrong? Isn't Red-flanked Bluetail Tarsiger cyanurus already on the NACC list, already with that scientific name?"
Yes from a 1982 Attu Island record.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...American_Birds .
Figure 1 of 2018-A-9 has it as Luscinia cyanura?
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Old Monday 8th January 2018, 04:11   #20
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This is surely wrong? Isn't Red-flanked Bluetail Tarsiger cyanurus already on the NACC list, already with that scientific name?
Should be wrong, I've seen Red-flanked Bluetail in North America. And as Mark says, it's been in the NACC list for over 30 years now.
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Old Wednesday 10th January 2018, 00:32   #21
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Except not the type species of Columba, which happens to be Columba oenas (Stock Dove). So you could argue that all the Columba species should be called "Xxxxx Dove" to match the type species
Hmmm... So "Woodpigeon" would turn into "Wooddove"?

It's all very confusing. I commend those who try to sort it out!
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Old Wednesday 10th January 2018, 06:18   #22
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Two words for the same thing, one Anglo-Saxon (dove), the other French (pigeon), used interchangeably. A foolish consistency. . . the hobgoblin of little minds. . ..
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Old Thursday 11th January 2018, 21:26   #23
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Two words for the same thing, one Anglo-Saxon (dove), the other French (pigeon), used interchangeably. A foolish consistency. . . the hobgoblin of little minds. . ..
Ahhh. One of my favorite quotes!

And among my friends we either just call them "pigeons" or "rockers".

FWIW, "Rats with wings" are Canada Geese.
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Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 12:19   #24
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Ahhh. One of my favorite quotes!

And among my friends we either just call them "pigeons" or "rockers".

FWIW, "Rats with wings" are Canada Geese.


Well they say that everything is bigger in the US...


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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 05:19   #25
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In London and the south-east we call feral pigeons "Flying Rats" (and Grey Squirrels are "Tree Rats") (or should that be Flying-rat and Tree-rat, as they are not related?) And what have the SACC got against Ben T. Bill?

Well I'm from London + know many birders/ naturalists in the area + the only people I've heard refer to them as flying rats aren't birders. Pretty stupid too.
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