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Is this a Common Yellowthroat ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter nikovich
- Start date
Robert Ellis
Larus marinus
Probably.
Andy Wraithmell
aka Limeybirder
nikovich said:
yes it is
Katy Penland
Well-known member
If it's a chat, it's the dullest, most aberrantly colored one I've ever seen. No white "spectacles" and supraloral, which really pop in the field; this bird barely has an orbital ring much less bright "specs." No white malar, no dark lores. Light, not dark bill. And doesn't what we can see of the underbelly seem awfully dark all over?
Are juvie chats this bland? That's a real question; I've never seen one to my knowledge. I'll try to find a photo since none of my field guides show sub-adults.
Why wouldn't this be a female Common Yellowthroat?
Are juvie chats this bland? That's a real question; I've never seen one to my knowledge. I'll try to find a photo since none of my field guides show sub-adults.
Why wouldn't this be a female Common Yellowthroat?
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prairiemerlin
registered guy
Get chat out of your minds. Chats have huge, thick bills, and their backs are much more olive. A chat would have much brighter spectacles, and, chats are southern birds. They do breed in southern Ontario, but generally they are very scare and unusual in Canada.
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prairiemerlin
registered guy
Also, chats have black legs, long tails, and are much bigger; they give the impression of a small, colorful jay.
Grousemore
Senior Member
Yellowthroat for me.
Brown Creeper said:
I take offense to this comment. I went to school is northern Missouri and we had chats breeding at a local conservation area and I refuse to be thougt of as "southern." Just kidding Brown Creeper, I understand what you meant. The old Sibley's does show chats breeding/summering in the southern parts of Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia and most of the US but I don't know how common they in the more northern areas. Either way, the bird pictured is not a chat and is a common yellowthroat. Looks nothing like a chat should.
prairiemerlin
registered guy
Lol... for me Missouri is the Deep South. 
Katy Penland
Well-known member
All due respect to the breeding location discussion, gents, but the photographer didn't say where the photo was taken. Like you, I assumed Canada but that may not necessarily be the case.
EDIT: I spent 2 hours last night trying to find a photo of a juvenile chat and had no luck at all.
EDIT: I spent 2 hours last night trying to find a photo of a juvenile chat and had no luck at all.
Nikovich has been known to forget to mention that photos are from a friend in Texas if I remember right, , but Dunn and Garrett confirm Sibley in that Chats do breed in the western Canadian provinces. Interestingly enough Katy, according to the plate in D&G, first fall female Chats lack the bold white spectacles and look much like the subject bird!!!!
Except of course for those pink feet, that too thin bill, and those big eyes relative to the rest of the head. Not a Chat.
I was troubled by the appearance of patterning coming down from the auriculars across the top of the breast, which could be a problem for the trichas subspecies of CY we get here, but I see it would be OK for the occidentalis subspecies out West, assuming the photo was taken where we think...
, but Dunn and Garrett confirm Sibley in that Chats do breed in the western Canadian provinces. Interestingly enough Katy, according to the plate in D&G, first fall female Chats lack the bold white spectacles and look much like the subject bird!!!!Except of course for those pink feet, that too thin bill, and those big eyes relative to the rest of the head. Not a Chat.
I was troubled by the appearance of patterning coming down from the auriculars across the top of the breast, which could be a problem for the trichas subspecies of CY we get here, but I see it would be OK for the occidentalis subspecies out West, assuming the photo was taken where we think...
Motmot
Eduardo Amengual
I´ve been trying to stay out of this thread because I´ve seen Yellow-breasted Chats only twice, adult looking birds, but I understand the pro chat posts. I guess is a Common Yellowthroat, looks possibly a short tailed bird and ok on coloration for C.Yellowthroat. But that bill looks on the big side for Yellowthroat and pale, Thayeri also mentions first fall female Chat on Dunn and Garrett looks much like it, illustration on Curson, Quinn and Beadle looks also fairly similar and text mentions juvenile chats have bill and legs flesh... mmmmh.....
Can we rule out for sure a juvenile Chat? :h?:
Found this pic on the net of a young bird (I think) with pale legs and not too different from the thread bird. Everyone sure our bird is a Yellowthroat?
http://home.earthlink.net/~citybirder/images/ybchat.jpg
Can we rule out for sure a juvenile Chat? :h?:
Found this pic on the net of a young bird (I think) with pale legs and not too different from the thread bird. Everyone sure our bird is a Yellowthroat?
http://home.earthlink.net/~citybirder/images/ybchat.jpg
Motmot said:
This bird does look superficially similar but shows some difference that are important. First, look at how big the bird in the link is compared to the original bird posted. As Brown Creeper said earlier, chats look big. Peterson's Warblers shows adults being a full 2 inches larger than Yellowthroats. Another thing to look at is the bill shape. Notice the chat has a curved upper mandible that is really large while the yellowthroat's is flatter. One last thing, look at the throat and flanks on both birds. On the yellowthroat, the throat is solid yellow and the flanks are clearly a whitish color while on the chat eveything is bright yellow. If the first bird was a chat, I think we would see yellow flanks in the position it is in and we clearly don't. Combine that with bright pink legs compared to darker legs and what seems to be a shorter tail and it can't be a chat.
Andy Wraithmell
aka Limeybirder
Motmot said:
Cant you see the pink legs?!!!!!! Cant believe folk thinks its a chat, it clearly isnt!
affe22 said:
Ah, but besides not having the prominent white spectacles, first fall female Chats also have a strong brown wash to their flanks, much like the subject bird. The legs aren't necessarily dark for a first year bird, and how can you be sure of the tail length at that angle?
But, I'm really just playing around here, :-O like you say, a Chat looks big, and one of the ways it looks big is how small its bare parts (eye, legs and bill) look compared to the big body, while the petite bird here has an eye and legs that look much larger compared to the body. I did not however definitively say that the bird was a Common Yellowthroat in my previous post, given the angle that has to be just an assumption, albeit a reasonable one. I truly don't think it is a Chat, however.
Thayeri said:
In all the books I have looked in, it looks like there should be yellow going up under the base of the wing in all phases, which is visible on the original bird. I see what you are saying about the flanks though, but that is farther back than I was trying to describe. I kind of guessed on the tail, figuring at that the end of a longer tail would show past the branch. It just didn't look terribly long to me, but that is my opinion and no good for iding.
affe22 said:
You are quite correct in that it appears that we can see the edge of the sides here, and those should be yellow on a Chat, even while the flanks can be brownish on a first fall female.
That whole area of the body is a bit of a problem if you are trying to refute jmorlan and Motmot's theory however. Look at the height between the base of the belly, and the edge of the wing -- wowza, pretty tall and thick for a slender little bird like a CY, isn't it? Looks kind of like that photo that Motmot links to, that big body, with the wings resting on top of it, instead of the wings dominating like they do with the smaller warblers...
I think I'm just playing around here, but as Motmot has noted, the bird does provide some interesting ammunition.... :bounce:
Katy Penland
Well-known member
Thanks, Thayeri, for reminding me to dig into my D&G. D'oh, shoulda done that in the first place! However, while there is a plumage resemblance, I still don't buy Nik's bird being a chat based on the bill shape and leg color.
Not to be arguing with all the expert knowledge here, but if you look at Nik's bird next to the juvie chat Motmot provided, I don't see how these can be the same species. I've taken the liberty of cropping Nik's and slightly lightening Motmot's linked image so we can compare bill shape, weight and depth, and so we can actually see the color of the legs on the linked bird. Nik's bird has pink legs, Motmot's clearly has dark. The overall shape of the birds themselves is hard to compare because Motmot's is fluffed up.
However, while there is a plumage resemblance, I still don't buy Nik's bird being a chat based on the bill shape and leg color. Not to be arguing with all the expert knowledge here, but if you look at Nik's bird next to the juvie chat Motmot provided, I don't see how these can be the same species. I've taken the liberty of cropping Nik's and slightly lightening Motmot's linked image so we can compare bill shape, weight and depth, and so we can actually see the color of the legs on the linked bird. Nik's bird has pink legs, Motmot's clearly has dark. The overall shape of the birds themselves is hard to compare because Motmot's is fluffed up.
