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Snow Geese - what's the current position? (1 Viewer)

Lawts

Supa Silly Un
What is the current view/position in terms of Snow Geese records in Britain?

I ask in light of the four birds currently on Teesside. Thus far, the behaviour of these birds seems consistent with them being truly wild birds - they haven't disgraced themselves, and feed apart from the Greylags and Canada's in a tight group.

Escapes? Four together - unlikely - must be a big hole in the fence, and from where?

Feral breeders? - Again, from where - what population of feral Snow Geese can see a reduction in numbers of four, without any birders seeing this, and if such a population can see four depart under the radar, then should this bring Cat. C into the equation?

I'm not sure if the Scottish population is still going - no-one mentions them.

The situation just feels a bit confusing for this species in Britain - thoughts?
 
Four snow geese arrived together at East Chevington in August. They were still there last week when I was there, along with three bar-headed geese.

I don't think anyone's even hinting that they are the real thing.
 
Snow Goose is a feral breeder in Britain, in Hampshire and on Coll. I've not got the latest RBBP report to hand but the one covering 2003-5 is available on the 'net:
http://www.rbbp.org.uk/downloads/rbbp-nn-report-2003-04-05.pdf
In addition to these two breeding populations, there will no doubt be other non-breeding feral birds at large.

Birds such as the ones in Northumberland/Teesside are most likely to be from these feral populations, rather than genuine vagrants from North America (or indeed recent fence hoppers). As the Snow Geese are judged to consistute a self-supporting population and they have been at large since the 1950s, the species is included by the BOU under Cat C2 (same as Egyptian Goose, Mandarin etc). It is also in Cat A as genuine vagrants have been proved by way of ringing recoveries.

As to other records in Britain, it's often difficult to judge likely origins. However, if I saw a Snow Goose flying over with large skeins of Pink-feet or in the vast goose flocks in North Norfolk, I'd strongly suspect it was the real deal. But Snow Geese turning up well before the first arrival of wild geese in the UK and then knocking around with feral goose flocks are highly likely to originate from this side of the Atlantic.

Mark
 
99% of the Uk snow geese are ferals or escaped birds and that includes most of the ones you see with the pinkfeet. We had some ross snows that after hanging about the Wensum Valley for a couple of years ended up joining the local pinks and migrating north with them resulting in a few hybrids. We also have group of feral ross snows mixing with a skien of feral barnacles.
 
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Snow Goose is a feral breeder in Britain, in Hampshire and on Coll. I've not got the latest RBBP report to hand but the one covering 2003-5 is available on the 'net:
http://www.rbbp.org.uk/downloads/rbbp-nn-report-2003-04-05.pdf
In addition to these two breeding populations, there will no doubt be other non-breeding feral birds at large.
Mark

The RBBP report for 2006-08 says :
"Breeding attempts in recent years have been largely confined to Hampshire and Argyll. Indications are, however, that these populations are dying out, as breeding has not been proved since 2005. The only sign of confirmed breeding during 2006-08 was a nest with eggs in Pembrokeshire, but the eggs did not hatch."
In 2008 :
"Two birds were reported on one date in April at the usual site (Stratfield Saye) in Hampshire, but did not breed.
A pair was reported in Ayrshire.
Four pairs were reported in Argyll from Coll, where a small, sedentary population, derived originally from a wildfowl collection on Mull, continues to breed."
 
Snow Geese are very common in captivity and escapes also very common. Birds in Pinkfoot flocks on Scottish islands may be more likely to be genuine vagrants.

I live near the Hampshire flock which has all but died out now. I still see Snow Geese locally every year of "unknown origin" but they're most likely escapes.
 
Based on these comments should it be on the British list under Cat. C - why not just A?

There isn't a self-supporting C population by the sound of it.

Also a minor point but Birdguides not putting the Teesside birds through with the dreaded escape foot next to it.
 
Based on these comments should it be on the British list under Cat. C - why not just A?

There isn't a self-supporting C population by the sound of it.

Also a minor point but Birdguides not putting the Teesside birds through with the dreaded escape foot next to it.

I guess the BOU don't amend such statuses on a year-by-year basis. If the longer term trend is of a declining population with little or no breeding and the population clearly isn't self supporting, then the BOU would assemble all the evidence and revise the status in due course. Similar situations will possibly soon be arising with Ruddy Duck, Lady Ams, maybe Golden Pheasant etc.

Birdguides status - don't know what their rules are, but Snow Geese wouldn't be the same as say a Burrowing Owl or plastic ringed Flamingo, where the origin is beyond doubt an escape. Maybe the Snow Geese are escapes, or maybe they're from the Scottish feral population; unknown to us all at the moment.

Tideliner said:
99% of the Uk snow geese are ferals or escaped birds and that includes most of the ones you see with the pinkfeet...

"99%" and "most" - I'd be interested how you'd tell which individuals are genuine vagrants.

Mark
 
Birds in Pinkfoot flocks on Scottish islands may be more likely to be genuine vagrants.

Why on Scottish islands? Arent the feral birds near or on some Scottish islands?

If we are assuming that genuine wild birds are most likely to arrive with the Pinkfeet flocks wouldnt that make genuine Snow Geese most likely in Aberdeenshire,Norfolk and even Northumberland assuming they only turn up at the right time of year and not in August like these birds.
 
Snow geese of both white and blue forms are free-flying around York and I recorded about a dozen or more birds at the University this time last year.

Not far as the goose-flies from Teeside. Nice birds though.

Robin
 
Why on Scottish islands? Arent the feral birds near or on some Scottish islands?

Snow Goose is on category C by vitue of a self-sustaining population in Argyll, so you can count those. Elsewhere, you would have to prove your bird is from the Argyll population or is a genuine wild bird.

However, there are so many escapes and feral non-sustaining populations all over the country that proving either of these is almost impossible.

Therefore (in my opinion) your best bet is a first-winter bird in a flock of Pinkfeet in some remote place where an escape is less likely to wander to. Even then, you still wouldn't know for sure where it had come from.
 
Snow Goose is on category C by vitue of a self-sustaining population in Argyll, so you can count those. Elsewhere, you would have to prove your bird is from the Argyll population or is a genuine wild bird.

However, there are so many escapes and feral non-sustaining populations all over the country that proving either of these is almost impossible.

Therefore (in my opinion) your best bet is a first-winter bird in a flock of Pinkfeet in some remote place where an escape is less likely to wander to. Even then, you still wouldn't know for sure where it had come from.

I see your point but the problem is the big Pinkfeet flocks and remote places like the Scottish islands dont really go together, If we assume that a genuine bird is most likely to arrive in September/October with the big numbers of Pinkfeet then surely Aberdeenshire and Norfolk(with most of them passing through Northumberland in between) are the most likely places for a genuine bird. As you say escapes might be more likely in these places than remote Scotish islands but surely it stands to reason that a genuine bird would be more likely in those areas too. Of course the problem is seperating the two which is pretty much impossible.

If two Snow Geese turned up at the end of September/early October, one with a handfull of Pinkfeet on a remote scotish Island and one with 100,000 Pinkfeet in Aberdeenshire if anything personally i'd be more inclined to tick the one in Aberdeenshire as whats the chances of one genuine Snow Goose deciding to go with the small handful of Pinkfeet rather than stay with the tens or hundreds of thousands?
Mathmatically at least there must be more chance of the Aberdeenshire bird being genuine given the numbers involved.

Ultimately its just about impossible to know for sure, I've seen both Snow and Ross's that i havent ticked because it seemed fairly obvious they werent genuine but i've also seen both species and have ticked them in situations that seemed as likely as possible to be genuine.
 
If we assume that a genuine bird is most likely to arrive in September/October with the big numbers of Pinkfeet then surely Aberdeenshire and Norfolk(with most of them passing through Northumberland in between)

Do most of them pass through Northumberland? I thought most of them were over here before they went to Norfolk and on the way back.

Stephen
 
Do most of them pass through Northumberland? I thought most of them were over here before they went to Norfolk and on the way back.

Stephen

Not quite sure to be honest but living right on the east coast of Durham I regulary see pretty large movements of Pinkfeet heading south which i would assume were on their way to Norfolk and i also assume would have passed through Northumberland. That said we certainly dont see anything like the numbers seen in Aberdeenshire and Norfolk hanging around anywhere in Northumberland.

I probably shouldnt have really included Northumberland in what i said earlier,my point really applied to Aberdeenshire and Norfolk and perhaps Lancashire if the bulk of them do go over that way.
 
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