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gulls (2 Viewers)

Hi Cristian and Lou, thanks for your input on this bird.Its apical spots were really that large and its mantle was argenteus like.Consensus seems to be thats its a hybrid, probably with Glaucous Gull somewhere along the line but of course its impossible to really know.
Now how about this one, comments ,as always, gratefully received.
 
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snowcap said:
Now how about this one, comments ,as always, gratefully received.
Click to expand...

Hi Pete,

A bit of Caspian about this bird but I feel that it is a 2nd winter Herring Gull. Legs are thick and short and underparts are quite dirty looking. Structurally it is the same as the adult next to it and it has a reasonably large head on a medium sized body rather than a small, rounded, pear shaped head on a large body. Tertials don't appear to be black centred either. Plenty of streaking about the head too.

Cheers,

Andy.
 
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tittletattler said:
Hi chaps,

Just been sent this link. What's going on here?

http://www.birdguides.com/iris/pictures.asp?v=1&off=278598&r=1&st=1&q=0

I agree with the ID, but why is the moult so advanced?

Cheers,

Andy.
Click to expand...
Why is it advanced Andy? I don't call this very advanced. It's more the average moult stage of 1cy michahellis at the end of December!

http://gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/1cydec/michdec1cy7963.htm

And take a look at the selection of 'end' November :
http://gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/1cynov/01cynov.htm

Regards, Ies
 
Ies Meulmeester said:
Why is it advanced Andy? I don't call this very advanced. It's more the average moult stage of 1cy michahellis at the end of December!

http://gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/1cydec/michdec1cy7963.htm

And take a look at the selection of 'end' November :
http://gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/1cynov/01cynov.htm

Regards, Ies
Click to expand...

Yes, you're quite right. I assumed that some of the mantle and scapulars are 3rd generation feathers; ie, the bird looked as though it was entering '1st summer' or '2nd winter' plumage. Of course they are 2nd generation feathers as they still have dark anchors etc but they are 'fluffed up' and loose looking and this confused me.

Cheers,

Andy.
 
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snowcap said:
Hi Cristian and Lou, thanks for your input on this bird.Its apical spots were really that large and its mantle was argenteus like.Consensus seems to be thats its a hybrid, probably with Glaucous Gull somewhere along the line but of course its impossible to really know.
Now how about this one, comments ,as always, gratefully received.
Click to expand...

i've never seen such a plain 2nd winter herring gull but i guess andy's thoughts are right. it looks like having 1st winter caspian coverts and tertials on a 2nd winter herring gull body and head...:smoke:
 
Thanks guys for your comments.It does indeed seem to have Caspian tertials and coverts and a Herring Gull like head...it did look more Casp like in the field, but I guess here on the western edges of Casp`s range, hybrids or non-classic birds should be expected.Compare the bird in #1701 with this bird, a Polish ringed Casp taken at the same site last year.
 
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tittletattler said:
Yes, you're quite right. I assumed that some of the mantle and scapulars are 3rd generation feathers; ie, the bird looked as though it was entering '1st summer' or '2nd winter' plumage. Of course they are 2nd generation feathers as they still have dark anchors etc but they are 'fluffed up' and loose looking and this confused me.

Cheers,

Andy.
Click to expand...


andy,

it's not at all excluded that some upper scaps are 3rd generation ones - which wouldn't be out of the ordinary. see this thread about moult in 1cy YLGs http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131 especially mars' explication in this post: http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131#p457.

excerpt: "By late November, many birds start subsequent moult wave in the upper scapulars, replacing the second generation feathers for third generation. The last moulted second generation lower scapulars show a brownish or buffish based centre with a pattern of dark bars or anchor pattern. The feathers show a broad white fringe. The new third generation feathers can show various patterns:
- again very second generation-like with anchor patterns but again with warm brown centres;
- a grey base with ill-defined anchor pattern close to the tip;
- plain grey feathers with a dark shaft streak.
Complete grey feathers are very rare, but some 1cy November birds tend to show plain grey, adult-like feathers (e.g. 947X, ringed 1cy michahellis from S France: http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/ ... ha947x.htm)."

the ind. on birdguides is a rather typical one, like ies mentioned.
 
snowcap said:
Thanks guys for your comments.It does indeed seem to have Caspian tertials and coverts and a Herring Gull like head...it did look more Casp like in the field, but I guess here on the western edges of Casp`s range, hybrids or non-classic birds should be expected.Compare the bird in #1701 with this bird, a Polish ringed Casp taken at the same site last year.
Click to expand...

Could be related to my bird above. :t:

Where exactly in Poland was it rung?

Cheers,

Andy.
 
Hi Andy, the Casp was ringed as a nestling at Zwirownia Zakole,Jankowice, Babice,Malopolskie on the 13th May 2009 and turned up in Cheshire in March 2010.

cheers, Pete.
 
snowcap said:
Hi Andy, the Casp was ringed as a nestling at Zwirownia Zakole,Jankowice, Babice,Malopolskie on the 13th May 2009 and turned up in Cheshire in March 2010.

cheers, Pete.
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete

My bird was rung 8 days later at the same site:

"Ring info: ringed May 21, 2009, Caspian Gull colony, Zwirownia Zakole a, Jankoweice, Babice, Malopolskie, Poland. Age: pullus".

Our birds are not quite siblings it would seem. Fascinating stuff nonetheless.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/little-w/4063375071/in/pool-505232@N24

Cheers,

Andy.
 
lou salomon said:
andy,

it's not at all excluded that some upper scaps are 3rd generation ones - which wouldn't be out of the ordinary. see this thread about moult in 1cy YLGs http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131 especially mars' explication in this post: http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131#p457.

excerpt: "By late November, many birds start subsequent moult wave in the upper scapulars, replacing the second generation feathers for third generation. The last moulted second generation lower scapulars show a brownish or buffish based centre with a pattern of dark bars or anchor pattern. The feathers show a broad white fringe. The new third generation feathers can show various patterns:
- again very second generation-like with anchor patterns but again with warm brown centres;
- a grey base with ill-defined anchor pattern close to the tip;
- plain grey feathers with a dark shaft streak.
Complete grey feathers are very rare, but some 1cy November birds tend to show plain grey, adult-like feathers (e.g. 947X, ringed 1cy michahellis from S France: http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/ ... ha947x.htm)."

the ind. on birdguides is a rather typical one, like ies mentioned.
Click to expand...

Hi Lou,

Thanks for this. Perhaps I should get round to what I threatened to do a while back: produce a Gantt chart that shows typical moult, by feather type, for large gulls.

Cheers,

Andy.
 
Nice shot, ody!

Herastrau, January 17th 2011. From the left to the right:
2cy Caspian, 2cy Yellow-legged scavenging from another 2cy large gull corpse, 2cy Caspian.
 

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