gulls (3 Viewers)

And a left side view for "my" Caspian here:

snowcap said:

yes it was nearly lacking one as you say.

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Did it look as small as it appears in the photo?

While I'm at it, what do you make of this.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2052485&postcount=1220

It reminded me why I avoid looking at the things - you can always find things that won't pigeon-hole

It was actually quite a large bird and does seem to have mixed features.

Maybe it will grow up to look like my bird then

Any opinion about this first winter bird (pics taken on February 5th, in Bucharest)?

hi cris,

"your" casp is identic with this one, right?

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=304347&d=1295615185

but not with the recent http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/data/527/P2043155m.jpg

in the past 2 weeks a new lower scap seems to have been grown (but well, it's the other side).

the last 3 pics - a strange small looking fellow (actually, girl), i think also cachinanns with a pretty short stubby bill. hard to asses scaps and abraded juvenile coverts but inner GC have a nice white border. who knows which steppes it sprang off?

best whishes

snowcap said:

View attachment 306909Hi folks, comments welcome on this , taken in NW England today.

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hi pete, any more shots of this?

looks like a yellow-legged gull, tail pattern fits it better than a casp, imo.

lou salomon said:

hi pete, any more shots of this?

looks like a yellow-legged gull, tail pattern fits it better than a casp, imo.

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Looks good for a Yellow-legged.

Also, happy birthday Janj.

Cheers,

Andy.

View attachment 307035Hi Lou, Andy...only one other shot of this bird and not in focus I`m afraid...it was just a fly by..it did seem very long billed but I couldn`t refind it, thanks for your input,

cheers, Pete.

Lou, I would say that in:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=306919&d=1296863299
and
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/349870/ppuser/54311
it's the same bird.

A few more pics taken on February 5th, Tineretului Park.

Cristian Mihai said:

Lou, I would say that in:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=306919&d=1296863299
and
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/349870/ppuser/54311
it's the same bird.

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they are different birds, cristian. http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/data/527/P2043155m.jpg is a more advanced bird with 2 new tertials, 3 inner GCs and some MC, and it has a more simple (grey with dark shaft) scapular pattern.
nice male 4cy caspian in your last post (1st pic), pics 3 and 4 an adult or 5cy. in pic 2 there seems to be a paler eyed canus on the left side.

lou salomon said:

they are different birds, cristian. http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/data/527/P2043155m.jpg is a more advanced bird with 2 new tertials, 3 inner GCs and some MC, and it has a more simple (grey with dark shaft) scapular pattern.
nice male 4cy caspian in your last post (1st pic), pics 3 and 4 an adult or 5cy. in pic 2 there seems to be a paler eyed canus on the left side.

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You're right Lou. Here is a left side view of the more advanced bird.

Comments about this 3cy bird, please. Pics taken on February 6th in Bucharest.

hi cristian,

this bird deserves a very thorough look. i'll answer just in short sentences my first and 2nd impression (cause i'd like to watch a film now). i thought: BINGO: heuglini! because of the soft pattern. and as such i though an advanced 2cy. but no, it's indeed a 3cy (2nd cycle) looking at all the 2nd gen. primaries. but then again, can a 2nd winter february heuglini look like this? why not. look at this pic from israel: http://gull-research.org/heuglini/heug2cy/2cydec02.html, well, december, but also pretty retarded.
then a lot of may pics from finland. these wetsern heuglini totally look different to the ones wintering in the gulf states, looking more like graellsii...ok, i'll be back on this. keep cool, it could well be a graellsii. we got to ask visa rauste!

cheers for the mo.

later in the night. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4f9yEgR0YKU/TUmoEykCCRI/AAAAAAAAIBY/HxMDjAIQYvI/s1600/LUA%C2%B7C+Azul.jpg looks pretty similar, a graellsii on 23.01.2011 in madrid.

unfortunately graellsii/intermedius are very very variable. have a look here: http://www.digimages.info/goebru/goebru_A5.htm

still, a normal western LBBG usually looks more striated on head parts, more coarsly patterned on coverts, and in your last pic here: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=307264&d=1297028653 it looks very heuglini like. 2nd gen. tertials especially don't have any strong pattern.
most 2nd winter heuglin's in oman etc. are more advanced, showing hardly any immature coverts and tertials. http://gull-research.org/heuglini/heug3cy/heug3cy01.html

finland:
http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/Photosof3cyheuglinis2007.htm april 3cy heuglini by hannu koskinen.
http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/3cyheu_Tara20080618.html in summer (june)
http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/3cyheu_Karanoja20080522.html (may)
http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/SubadLBBG_Tara20080420.html presumed graellsii/intermedius (april)

let's go over to GRF with it. :smoke:

i've trawled through visa's pics last night but didn't find anything useful - sure, heuglini arrives in finland in april, may.
lars' pics of 2nd cycle winter (nov/dec) don't specify if barabensis or heuglini though i think the more coarsly patterned birds belong to barabensis: http://www.pbase.com/hans_larsson/barabensis_or_heuglini&page=all

the herastrau bird has clear striation on head, rel. short legs and a comparatively high and short bill plus darker scaps than usually seen on heuglini - all this favours intermedius over heuglin's gull i guess.

if the matter can be solved: bare in mind there is no accepted record of heuglini in romania although cited in gulls (by annika f. as an october passage migrant on black sea) and 1 seen on sacalin during the AERC meeting back in 2003, but maybe just on basis of assumed likeliness? under time all the photographed pale mantled LBBG in romania seemed to belong to graellsii/intermedius. quite some intermedius seem to spread into the eastern mediterranean basin (see e.g. gulls of crete), birds in hungary, 2-3 claims from israel. i know of 5 sightings of probable intermedius from romania but no definite record of heuglini.
- in spite of that stragglers should pass on the western black sea coast on a yearly basis! note also sightings of presumed heuglini from poland and latvia.
and this 3cy (probable) intermedius from 12.08.2008 (dambovita river?): http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=178334
cheers,

Topic on gull research forum here:
http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=489

Thank you very much for your comments, Lou.
A pic with cachinnas and michahellis in flight (taken with the same occasion).

Cristian Mihai said:

Thank you very much for your comments, Lou.
A pic with cachinnas and michahellis in flight (taken with the same occasion).

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yea, yea - while in the left adult (cach?) you can clearly see the dorsal p5 mark shining through (no pigmentation on underside?), i can't see such in the right hand bird. which also has an odd p10 pattern with this strong subterminal mark. cach x tatus ?

and that 1st cycle cach without any dark pigments in bill....

lou salomon said:

yea, yea - while in the left adult (cach?) you can clearly see the dorsal p5 mark shining through (no pigmentation on underside?), i can't see such in the right hand bird. which also has an odd p10 pattern with this strong subterminal mark. cach x tatus ?

and that 1st cycle cach without any dark pigments in bill....

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Yep, for the right hand bird I uploaded the pic.
Here are 100 % crops with the wing tip for the birds.

ok, now we see the small p5 mark on outer web, like we are used...still, one more for the statistics, if i'll do such in the closer future
both actually have short ventral p10 tongues for ad caspian. left one well within range of YLG but bill looks slim and pointed. right one very odd with that really solid p10 subterminal mark in combination with rel. short tongue and just a small p5 mark. strange. somewhere from the russian meltingpot maybe?