Birding, twitching, spotting and nature preservation (1 Viewer)

locustella · Dec 31, 2013

I don't know exactly what these words mean, but it seems that competition to spot as many species as possible / year or lifespan sometimes kills birding.
In my opinion results of such spotting sometimes can be not dependable, confabulation aimed to defeat rivals, can be also dangerous to birds ...

http://feeds.theguardian.com/c/3470...british0Ebirdwatching0Ewild0Eside/story01.htm
Twitching – British birdwatching goes bad as spotters ramp up competition
Environment news, comment and analysis | guardian.co.uk|Anthony Faiola
They mention the obsessive crowd halted by police, attempting to spot a rare Spanish sparrow in Hampshire in 2012.
They write also about film "The Big Year" about three birders in North America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyrgXRnHVd4

Here is another film - "The Hound Of The Baskervilles":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKnZ8etir6E
Notice, what Sherlock Holmes says about one entomologist:

claim to fame (...) that was his fatal moment. There can be only one discoverer of the species. That pinpointed him.

(1:21:40-1:21:58)

Notice also this behaviour in "Wyvern"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaU8wqmqA5k
(0:27:56 - 0:28:48)
Such birdwatching in turn wouldn't be damaging to the environment at all.

Mysticete · Dec 31, 2013

In the states, twitching is mostly harmless (outside of the carbon footprint). Birders are really too spread out for any sort of fierce rivalries to develop, and birders seem to be good at using the honor system, so you don't really get the mud slinging or stringing.

dantheman · Dec 31, 2013

Agreed, birdwatchers are mostly pretty evil ...

locustella · Dec 31, 2013

Sometimes such rare bird is caught with net, to ring ...
Basically birding contributes to the popularization of nature and is probably beneficial for it's conservation. But in some cases too much is too much.
I have noticed that many birders are not interested in nature protection. If you ask them to sign any petition or help in observations somewhere, most of them don't do. They only watch for sport or to produce papers in journals for their careers, even killing birds to research what they eat. Something horrible. But this second issue is not exactly about birdwatching.

Paul Chapman · Dec 31, 2013

Locustella

Indeed - it is regular in the UK for twitchers to hound birds to death and devastate habitat and disturb local residents.

Alternatively it is probably best not to believe what you read.

All the best

Sangahyando · Dec 31, 2013

locustella said:
I have noticed that many birders are not interested in nature protection. If you ask them to sign any petition or help in observations somewhere, most of them don't do.

Might also have to do with the fact that a) signing anything on the street can be a legal risk, and b) signing anything on the internet can entail being bombarded with spam afterwards. I don't blame people for being cautious. in my experience, most birders are relatively well behaved, although there is of course room for improvement. Haven't met too many twitchers yet so I can't quite judge that particular demographic.

They only watch for sport or to produce papers in journals for their careers, even killing birds to research what they eat. Something horrible. But this second issue is not exactly about birdwatching.

Er, what? Source?

Johann Sebastian Bach · Dec 31, 2013

locustella said:
Notice, what Sherlock Holmes says about one entomologist1:21:40-1:21:58)

Watson clattered his tripod, perhaps more hastily than is seemly in an Englishman, and cleared his throat nervously.
"I say, Holmes, I do believe I'm watching a Slender Billed Curlew." His heart raced a little more whilst two beads of perspiration chased each other across his bandana-clad forehead. His voice, rising querulously at every second, continued, "it's landed on the shore, just in front of the ocean liner "TMS Titanic".
Holmes's mental file-card system sprang into immediate operation. He knew Long-John Rons had seen one on March 12th, 1897 at 4.13 am in Cley; he recalled "Spider's" ridiculous claim of a fly-over as he watched Bleriot land at Dover. A few other twitchers had also made exaggerated claims of seeing this revered and almost mythical species but he discounted these, purporting that "invention is the mother of necessity".
"Watson, you never cease to surprise me with your ineptitude and failing memory." Turning his beady eye on his hapless companion, the great detective gave a great stare, withering him to the width of a stem of a phragmites in a moment of intense derision.
"You dunderhead!" he exploded, in a bull-venting rage of arrogance. "You should recall that I've declared the species to be extinct. Kindly take the trouble, my good man, to read my seminal publication Egos, Rarities and their allies. I discuss how Sir Frances Drake lobbed a jack onto the final specimen's head, during a game of bowls at Plymouth Hoe at twelve-minutes after eight-of-the-clock on 29th February, 1588.
"But Watson", stammered Holmes in a rising panic at the the thought he was about to express, "I thought you had declared the Slender Billed Curlew to be extinct because you had never seen one."
And so, gentle reader, came the apocalypse. Watson had failed to realise that the missing element of the e=mc2 equation (which Holmes had provided to an appreciative Einstein) was anatomically linked to Holmes's very being. On his secret being discovered, the great detective transmuted the very granite on which he stood into a devilishly complex amalgamation of pure thought, a fine malt whiskey and a large piece of broccoli.

I hope this helps to explain some of the differences between UK and US birding and twitching.

Happy New Year,

Peter

locustella · Dec 31, 2013

Johann Sebastian Bach said:
"I thought you had declared the Slender Billed Curlew to be extinct because you had never seen one."

|=)| |=)| |=)|

Boro Birder · Dec 31, 2013

When I first got in to birding I thought all birders would be like-minded, the care and protection of the bird would always be at the fore front of our minds and no matter who had seen what it was always a friendly and peaceful hobby, how wrong I was and to be honest it's quite sad.

Farnboro John · Dec 31, 2013

Boro Birder said:
When I first got in to birding I thought all birders would be like-minded, the care and protection of the bird would always be at the fore front of our minds and no matter who had seen what it was always a friendly and peaceful hobby, how wrong I was and to be honest it's quite sad.

Its 1982. I am in a corridor in the Biology Department of the University of Manchester, discussing the reasons individuals "get into" zoology. A female mature student shellshocked from too many dissections (and being gulled into stroking a rat that she initially was scared of, only to be told by an evil tutor that he was just off to kill it for another lab session) whines that she decided on zoology because "she wants to be nice to animals" everyone else explodes into laughter.....

Birding is not robin-stroking. Birders are not in general sentimental: most will cheer on the peregrine rather than the victim.

However, it is fairly rare for the welfare of the bird to be seriously abandoned, Guardian-readers hypersensitivity notwithstanding.

Little sadness: lots of competition: much joy.

John

bentleyg · Dec 31, 2013

I think I may be schizoid. I invariably cheer on Peregrines, and also my manic-eyed local Sparrowhawk, but, I have been known to do a little robin-stroking as well. What should I do?

HNY

Farnboro John · Jan 1, 2014

bentleyg said:
I think I may be schizoid. I invariably cheer on Peregrines, and also my manic-eyed local Sparrowhawk, but, I have been known to do a little robin-stroking as well. What should I do?

HNY

Carry on. There's a word for someone who can hold two opposing viewpoints at once but I've forgotten it - possibly because of the beer and champagne (not mixed I hasten to reassure you.)

Happy New Year

John

auchinbowie · Jan 1, 2014

locustella said:
I don't know exactly what these words mean, but it seems that competition to spot as many species as possible / year or lifespan sometimes kills birding.
In my opinion results of such spotting sometimes can be not dependable, confabulation aimed to defeat rivals, can be also dangerous to birds ...

The best way to understand the anomalies is to recognise that birders is a generic term which encompasses different sets of individuals, each set having different objectives. There are:

Ornithologists whose primary goals are related to the advancement of our understanding of birds and their relationships with the environments in which they live.

Ecologists whose primary interest is protecting the environment for birds as well as the other flora and fauna.

Birdwatchers who take a joy in the birds they encounter, new and old friends.

Listers who want to see as many species as possible in any particular location and/or timeframe.

Twitchers who are driven to see as many different species as possible. You may consider them as the modern day equivalent of train spotters. Some are not interested in seeing species after they have already been "bagged".

If you went back fifty years, the predominant groups were the birdwatchers with ornithologists probably coming second. (I cannot prove this assertion.) As the plight of wildlife has been highlighted, the ecologist group has grown. Also the popularity of "birding" has produced the competitive element of listing and twitching.

These sets are not discrete. Any single individual can belong to more than one set and most do. So each individual probably has a profile which includes an element of all five (or at least the first four) behaviours. Most birders of all sets take pleasure in seeing a new species. Many listers may also contribute records to enhance our knowledge base. This may change over time and circumstances. In my own case, I started as a lister, when a schoolboy, then developed an interest in ornithology during 6th form and university years. Today I am primarily a birdwatcher, but revert to lister mode, when abroad. Indeed, this predominated while living on short-term assignment in the US, even though this continued for several years.

Mysticete · Jan 2, 2014

I really really really hate when people list twitchers and listers as some sort of entity separate from birders. You can be really into listing and twitching and still spend time enjoying a feeding flock of warblers or the behavior of a house sparrow.

As for other comments:

At least in the states, ringing a known rarity is relatively rare...The only examples I know of stateside are a few recent hummingbirds whose identity wasn't certain. It more common for a rarity to be initally found via ringing than for someone to intentionally chase after a vagrant

Petitions: I suspect birders are not super excited about signing petitions is that the internet has made them so easy to do that the actual significance of them has decreased. See all the white house gov petitions. You can pretty much produce any petition you want, an no matter how ludicrous they are, you will drum up a lot of signatures. Not to mention it isn't clear what exactly a lot of those petitions will do. A online petition is not going to do much good in preserving habitat in Sumatra...

Only interested in papers: My experience has shown that ornithologists and twitchers barely overlap. Yes...ornithologists prioritize research, but then most successful ones put research before most everything else. Because without papers, you can't compete for jobs. A lot of researchers in my experience generally seek more relaxed birding than anything else. Also they seldom have the time to hardcore twitch rarities, other than local stuff.

davercox · Jan 2, 2014

I remember reading a book by James Fisher (who certainly was an ornithologist) about the trip he made to Iceland in about 1951 with Peter & Philippa Scott. (It may have been "A Thousand Geese" because on this trip they found Pink-Footed Geese breeding in the central wilderness.)

He very vividly describes leaping around like a schoolboy on seeing his first Snowy Owl, because it was his 1000'th life bird - and also very vividly Philippa's utter scorn for such childishness.

auchinbowie · Jan 2, 2014

Mysticete said:
I really really really hate when people list twitchers and listers as some sort of entity separate from birders. You can be really into listing and twitching and still spend time enjoying a feeding flock of warblers or the behavior of a house sparrow.

Misticete,

I think this was an objection to my comment. Please, however, read my comment again and I believe that you will accept that it was an ill-judged knee-jerk reaction.

I made it clear that ALL the sets WERE BIRDERS. Also I clearly stated that the sets were overlapping and that most birders would be included in most sets and that their objectives, or if you prefer, priorities changed with time and/or circumstances.

It is clear from your posts that you would identify yourself primarily as a "lister". There are times when I would also so do. In the years I spent living in the US, my birding was almost exclusively conducted as a lister. I have a consolidated list for the US (though oddly not the UK or Western Palearctic) which had been in the 590s for years. During a family visit, three years ago, I was keen to pass the 600 mark and made a visit to Cave Creek to achieve this. Hence I am also a "twitcher" on occasion. To condemn all such activity would be hypocritical.

There can, however, be a problem, primarily in the UK, when large numbers of birders invade a sensitive area, chasing a reported rarity. Those birders have a high proportion of listers/twitchers in their ranks. This was the original issue raised in the thread.

There is nothing to imply that you or I or any other lister would take no interest in either ecology or the advancement in avian knowledge. Very few birders are totally obsessed with one aspect, be it conservation, listing or.... For that matter the vast majority of listers get pleasure from casual birdwatching and many participate in ornithological surveys. It is just that different individuals have different priorities. What is so contentious in that?

Dave

Paul Chapman · Jan 3, 2014

Dave

Whilst your categories ('sets') were not stated to be discrete, in your original post, you then identified individuals as falling into one or other of those categories and the comment as to the proportions that fell into different categories historically and now suggested that at least some individuals could be classified into one or other exclusively.

Personally I know no-one that falls exclusively into any of those categories - and I know people that are predominantly engaged in each of the five activities.

I anticipate that your categories are a pretty good summation of the different types of birding activity - though bird photography is probably a sixth that needs to be added - and the reality is that the balance between those activities has changed so there are now no individuals I know whose sole activity comprises birdwatching without some listing or twitching element. (This includes some of John's robin-strokers - virtually all robin-strokers in Britain have twitched a Waxwing.) The reason for that is that listing and twitching are entirely legitimate and enjoyable elements which are far more easily accessible to people now because information is far more widely available and travel infrastructure is far better.

What I find so remarkable is that individuals within birding because of the stigma and nonsense published (such as this article) deny that they engage in listing or twitching and even castigate individuals who openly confirm that they do - to the extreme that perversely some who castigate such activities actually engage in more listing or twitching than some that they condemn.

So far both of my foreign trips in the planning stage this year - Latvia and Finland/Norway - are locations where I have no remaining 'lifers'. Probably 80% plus of my birding activity is birdwatching but I am happy to confirm to all that I am a lister and a twitcher.

As a hardcore twitcher, the only change that I would suggest is that it would be far better if casual listers and twitchers left the really rare vagrants to us idiots to ease the any pressure on sites.

All the best

auchinbowie · Jan 3, 2014

Paul,

I concur in your analysis. I also omitted egg-collectors. This is an activity which I would never condone, unless for genuinely scientific purposes. It is also an aspect which has fortunately declined over the years. As a child, I was one. My only excuses are that it was common at the time and that I had stopped before the age of 11.

I hope that you have a superb trip to Finland and that the weather is kinder for you than it was for me in 2012. My main "twitch" then was Wolverine, an animal I had sought and missed with an artist friend in Ontario on more than one occasion.

A happy and productive New Year to all, except the egg collectors, no matter which and how many birding activities you enjoy.

Dave

Paul Chapman · Jan 3, 2014

Dave

Many thanks and happy New Year to you.

I totally agree with your omission. Lets hope that activity is discarded into the dustbin of history sooner rather than later.

All the best

Robin Edwards · Jan 3, 2014

Farnboro John said:
Its 1982. I am in a corridor in the Biology Department of the University of Manchester, discussing the reasons individuals "get into" zoology. A female mature student shellshocked from too many dissections (and being gulled into stroking a rat that she initially was scared of, only to be told by an evil tutor that he was just off to kill it for another lab session) whines that she decided on zoology because "she wants to be nice to animals" everyone else explodes into laughter.....

Imagine if she'd been ratted into stroking a gull he was about to kill - now that would have roused quite different emotions would it not?

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