Jane Turner
Well-known member
This week in the UK. It was LBBG sized
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gulls (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter lou salomon
- Start date
lou salomon
the birdonist
like you say, aleksej: 1-2 mongolicus, 3 and 4a canus, ssp. heinei i guess.
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
With mud / oil on its belly :t:
lou salomon
the birdonist
4cy or 5cy larus argentatus. nice record.
Samuel Perfect
Well-known member
Initially saw this bird flying about at The Serpentine, Hyde Park, London yesterday (17/12/2016). It was rather thick fog so couldn't make out much detail but the mantle tone seemed right for YLG, the colour intermediate between HG and LBBG, lacking the bluish tint and appearing very sooty. The saddle was uniform grey with no older brown feathers in the mantle or scaps. I didn't pay it a great deal of attention as I was in a rush but I happened to chance upon it again sat on the water at closish range. The mantle definitely seemed darker than Herring (even argentatus) but there wasn't a great deal else I new to look for that would solidify the ID. From the photographs, P7-10 project beyond the tail making a somewhat long winged appearance. The head and bill shape look OK for HG to be honest and there's a fair amount of head streaking. There's no suggestion of a mirror from the poor view that I can see of the underside of P10. The wing coverts are rather blurred but the median covs all seemed to be adult like whilst the lesser covs were still brown centred and the greater covs were marbled brown/white. At least one outer tertial was dark based with a broad pale tip whilst the inners were replaced grey with broad white tips. Could it be a 3CY HG or a 2CY YLG?
Help gratefully appreciated
Help gratefully appreciated
Attachments
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Hi Samuel - I'd go for an argentatus HG; I see quite a few similar birds up here in the winter. I'm not convinced it is particularly dark, I suspect that's just an effect of the fog.
Samuel Perfect
Well-known member
Cheers Nutcracker for the response. Was quite convinced the mantle colour was out of range for HG, even argentatus. There were several other HGs in the park at the time, not showing quite as close as this individual and appeared paler on the mantle. I don't have any side-by-side shots unfortunately. Is there anything definitive I can look out for in a bird of this age to rule out YLG other than JIZZ?
Attached is another gull photographed in Hyde Park back in March. Once again I was in a rush so didn't have an opportunity to study it closely. Darker mantle than HG, white headed, solid grey saddle, weak yellow tone coming through on the legs, 4 primary tips visible beyond the tail tip, modest dark bases to the tertials. Is this suggestive of a YLG.
Any help once again much appreciated
Attached is another gull photographed in Hyde Park back in March. Once again I was in a rush so didn't have an opportunity to study it closely. Darker mantle than HG, white headed, solid grey saddle, weak yellow tone coming through on the legs, 4 primary tips visible beyond the tail tip, modest dark bases to the tertials. Is this suggestive of a YLG.
Any help once again much appreciated
Attachments
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Sorry, no idea what that one is - not seen anything similar up here (which could mean it's a YLG, as they don't occur up here other than mega rarities so I have minimal experience of them!)
Might be best to wait for Lou to weigh in :t:
Might be best to wait for Lou to weigh in :t:
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
In terrible light in foggy Geneva yesterday this gull appeared 'dirty - headed' and chested compared to the other Yellow-legged, also seemed stockier, sturdier-legged and the developing grey mantle seemed lighter coloured than YLG. It was a bit distant for decent photos but wondered what you 'experts' 
think of it.
think of it.Attachments
lou salomon
the birdonist
looks like a 3rd cycle (4cy) herring gull to me, richard. nice bird for geneva.
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
Thanks Lou, you're right, not often reported in the far west of Switzerland.
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
A friend photographed these gulls yesterday and was hoping to have found Caspian Gull amongst them.
The two 1st winters don't say Caspian to me, but the 3rd winter with the YLGull looks paler-mantled than its companion and 'snouty' too.
Do others agree?
The two 1st winters don't say Caspian to me, but the 3rd winter with the YLGull looks paler-mantled than its companion and 'snouty' too.
Do others agree?
Attachments
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi richard,
apart from the last bird (pic 5, adult, between the cormorants) i don't see any caspian gull. this adult (pic 5) looks good structurally/jizzwise but i really would have liked to see more of it to confirm a definite cachinnans, especially since it has a pale iris. p9 mirror looks large which is in favour of a cach but nothing else really clinches the ID.
the other birds:
1. interesting and difficult bird, looks like a strongly retarded 2nd cycle (3cy) michahellis but i'm far from sure since head striation is m.o.l. evenly distributed, eye still dark and scaps at this time of year and age would be adult grey in 90% cases.
2. quite classic 1st cycle michahellis with some 3rd generation (grey) scapulars.
3. both michs, an adult to the right and a 3rd cycle left - mirror and amount of black in wingtip large (very small p10 mirror); large square head, high and not very long bill (it is a male).
4. adult and 3cy michahellis (this is how a 2nd winter micha should look like )
5. 1st cycle mich and probably adult caspian.
apart from the last bird (pic 5, adult, between the cormorants) i don't see any caspian gull. this adult (pic 5) looks good structurally/jizzwise but i really would have liked to see more of it to confirm a definite cachinnans, especially since it has a pale iris. p9 mirror looks large which is in favour of a cach but nothing else really clinches the ID.
the other birds:
1. interesting and difficult bird, looks like a strongly retarded 2nd cycle (3cy) michahellis but i'm far from sure since head striation is m.o.l. evenly distributed, eye still dark and scaps at this time of year and age would be adult grey in 90% cases.
2. quite classic 1st cycle michahellis with some 3rd generation (grey) scapulars.
3. both michs, an adult to the right and a 3rd cycle left - mirror and amount of black in wingtip large (very small p10 mirror); large square head, high and not very long bill (it is a male).
4. adult and 3cy michahellis (this is how a 2nd winter micha should look like
)5. 1st cycle mich and probably adult caspian.
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
Thanks Lou, I'll tell my friend to keep trying!!
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
Two more to confirm please larophiles, the adult is a YLG (I think) as it has a black subterminal bar on P10, but what about the 3rd year bird, presumably the goneydal angle (amongst other technical plumage details that I need to learn!) makes it YLG too ?
Thanks as always.
Thanks as always.
Attachments
lou salomon
the birdonist
sorry richard, neither of these pics are really conclusive. both flying birds look like adult YLG though. where and when always helpful. the black in wingtip of the adult in the first pic corresponds with michahellis but it isn't really enough to make a sure call, nor is the p10 subterminal band anything near diagnostic for YLG. i don't see a 3rd year (3cy? or 3rd cycle) bird in these pics.
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