Paralysis by analysis but deadline is now! (1 Viewer)

Dang, this has been too hard. The more I read the more I struggle w/ what to pick but my return period at SWFA is about to expire and I need to pick something. Reminder, I bought the Leupold Pinnacles and find the brightness very disappointing, so much so, I am going to soak up $35+ dollars in shipping (back forth and new ones back) plus, they charge 10-15% restocking fee. I never expected to be disappointed w/ the Pinnacles so wasn't worried about the return policy but if I spend equal or more money ($400), they won't charge a restock fee. If I buy something lesser, like the Monarchs, they will charge the fee on the difference, so not a killer but in the end, $50 in shipping and restocking fees starts to hurt.

Anyway, my previous post on brightness contained lots of terrific comments including some about "why not get a porro for brightness" and other related comments. I own two pairs of Porros that I think are fantastic and they are extremely bright. Few have heard of them but they are mid 90's 8x42's Simmons Presidential w/ fully multi BAK4, waterproof, etc. I have used them for 13-14 yrs and think they are fantastic. The reason I am in the market is simply "want" not need and at this point, I already pulled the trigger and have a credit to spend at swfa. I don't need or want another porro, I'd like a roof with consideration toward brightness and weight.

I have narrowed it down to new Monarch 8x42's or Bushness Legend Ultra HD 8x42 (appx same price) or Zen 8x42 ED2. My biggest hesitation w/ Zen's (same price as the Pinnacles I'm returning) is weight, so I considered the 7x36 but worry the "brightness" my be less than a 8x42 monarch even though exit pupil is the same. Not sure what else I am giving up on the 7x36 but they have similar wt to monarchs whereas 8x42 zen is 27oz, about 5-6 oz more than competing 8x42's.

Any thoughts on these options? I read "bear..." comment on the 7x36 ED2 ZR vs. the Monarchs and that pushed me back to the Nikon but everyone has their own opinion...i'm a bit torn but need to make a call...

Your expectations are pretty high and any of these may not suit your particular tastes. You absolutely must try these first if you want to be satisfied. I wouldn't buy from anyone without an excellent return policy because there are so many competitors out there. In fact, I'd work with your vendor to make an exception if you return the item in excellent condition as a competitive gesture.



Since you ask, I'll at least throw in my thoughts.

New Monarch - I was incredibly unimpressed with the original Monarch - it had good performance but not distinctive in any way (except maybe when it was first released). Good value for the money at the time but later on it was easily surpassed. New model with its fancy coatings, etc, I will defer to current users. However, I think it is a case of "paying for a name" which makes it not the best value.

8x42HD - this is the dark horse of the bunch. Look very carefully at the reviews here. You might decide this is a very good option if priced competitively.

7x36 ED - the big - little binocular. The comments here speak for themselves. You might also want to see the less than complimentary opinions of it, such as those that suggest edge sharpness is poor, etc, but overall it's a great value and the owner is an active participant here. How many others care that much?

If this is an "all around", I'd go 8x42 HD due to aperture and magnification. If this is an elective model, then the 7x36 has a place.

Just to make your life a bit more complicated than necessary, I will suggest 8x42 ZRS HD. I have their 10x equivalent and very happy with it. If I were you, I will order it with one of the ED2 binoculars from zen-ray.com. FWIW, they don't have stocking fee if you return one of them.

I'd easily suggest the ZEN ED 8x43 from your list. I'd add a Vortex Viper since you are dealing through SWFA and they are Vortex dealer. Vipoers are bright and the new HD should be brighter yet.

But I think this is as far as I can go. I have a suspicion that you have set your expectations to the point they will not be fulfilled. I base that largely on my impression of the Leupold Pinncale being a pretty bright binocular, while you thought it dim.

Steve C said:

I'd easily suggest the ZEN ED 8x43 from your list. I'd add a Vortex Viper since you are dealing through SWFA and they are Vortex dealer. Vipoers are bright and the new HD should be brighter yet.

But I think this is as far as I can go. I have a suspicion that you have set your expectations to the point they will not be fulfilled. I base that largely on my impression of the Leupold Pinncale being a pretty bright binocular, while you thought it dim.

Click to expand...

I agree with Steve, not only in his recommendation of a ZR ED2 (though I prefer the 7x36 model for its better DOF/3-D effect and lighter weight), but also in that you might have unrealistic expectations of how bright "bright" should be in a mid-priced 8x42 roof, particularly in Florida, the "Sunshine State". If it's not bright enough there, where would it be bright enough?

I haven't tried the Viper, but I didn't like what I read about the flare problem in the 8x32 model. Not sure if that also plagues the 8x42.

If you want BRIGHT, for a bit more than twice the price, the Docter 8x56 B/GA will blow the Pinnacles away under low light conditions (provided your entrance pupils can open to 7mm), and will give you a noticeably better 3-D view, but they weigh over 47 oz. (the 35 oz. weight listed on SWFA is incorrect) and will require a binoharness (and maybe some weight training .

The bottom line (finally!) is that every bin is a set of compromises. Not even $2K alpha roofs will satisfy everyone's needs or expectations.

So what you are actually looking for is the best compromise you can find at your price point. Even if you make a Rory Gilmore pro and con list, you won't be absolutely positive if the bin is right for you until you get into into your hands and up to your eyes, because hand held bins are very personalized instruments that have to fit you physically as well as what you intend to use them for. For some people, all it takes is one "fatal flaw" in bin that otherwise is very good to get stamped REJECTED.

But it's good that you are asking lots of questions since that will help you make a better informed decision, but again, what you end up with will be the best compromise.

That may sound bad, but it's really not, because what you can buy today for $400 in a roof is a much better set of compromises than you could have bought 10 years ago.

There are also a lot more good choices out there today. I think that might be part of the problem!

You walk into White Castle, you get a chocolate shake, and that's it. You walk into Diary Queen, and you got three choices: vanilla, chocolate, or twist (though lots of choices of toppings).

You walk into Baskin Robbins and you have 35 Flavor Flavs to chose from! I can't go in there, because it might take me a half hour of taste testing to decide what I want and people behind me in line start yelling at me because I'm holding them up, so I usually end up getting vanilla and I'm never disappointed, because I like vanilla.

If you learn to like vanilla, the world is your oyster, because you can find it everywhere.

As Brock says, the big Docters are a handful, as well as out of budget at around $1000.
However, they are wonderfully sharp, as well as impressively bright, decently weather proof and well built.
A glass for a lifetime, imo.

Hopefully going forward you can easily avoid dealers who charge restocking fees and other fees.

But in the past I have been snagged by a dealer like that. I find the policys are for those who will accept them. I have had a 100% success rate of getting vendors to forget about the restocking and embrace "custoner good will" by making them aware it will bring prolific posts about their policy and cost their reputation and lost sales! it does not cost $60 to put a pair of of $400 binoculars back on the for sale rack.

Good luck.

interestingly, what i was told was the restocking fee was to cover credit card fees. they said, we are charged on the purchase and return for cc fees. I think that is incorrect, but i don't know officially. I expect fees of 3% on the buy but a return would rebate the fee but maybe not. If not, I understand to some extent, hard to sell and take back a pair and end up losing 6%.

regarding unrealistic expectations on brightness, not true. I am satisified w/ the brightness provided by the new generation nikon 8x42, just have a strong resistence to them (ATB's). I don't know why, the ergonomics is part of it, but I also not they are bright but not necessarily optically outstanding so I've pushed to find a good combination. I believe i will order the zens afterall. Between the 20% off and the high quality, I'm thinking i"ll just live w/ the added wt of about 6 oz to get better quality. I'll decide this weekend