Atlas listing (1 Viewer)

ColinD · Dec 1, 2007

james d said:
Coigach

If you go on to the BTO atlas web page and look under "Taking part" and then "Field methods" it tells you all about it. Apparently it is important to record a separate list if you do a second hour of surveying. Up in here in the far north east of Scotland it doesn't matter much - there is not enough birds around to justify a second hour surveying (at least not in the squares I've visited so far).

I assume that you mean this page http://www.bto.org/birdatlas/taking_part/methods.htm

If so, I've read and re-read the page many times, and unless I'm going mad, at no point does it say, "record a seperate list for the first and second hour". I only found out about it when I saw the column on the form, when I came to enter the records today from 4 timed visits made over the past week.

Surreybirder · Dec 1, 2007

Mike Cook said:
Hi Ken,

When I look at "View my tetrads" on line, the ones I've done are yellow (counts submitted). They'll eventually be white (counts validated). Maybe they'll query the common redpoll when they validate. I've got no feel about whether there are many common redpolls over here this winter. The BTO would know from Birdtrack data. Incidentally, were any lesser redpolls recorded in the square? I'd feel happier about the common if it was in a flock with lessers.

I've found 63 species so far but another 33 have been seen by others. I have not got to the coastal tetrads yet so my personal tally will rise when I do the first three of these in December. Star birds so far are 2 little awks about 6km inland.

Mike

Pretty impressive, Mike... my wife comes from Newcastle so I occasionally get over to St Mary's Island. Obviously, in inland Surrey, I don't get anything like the variety of species.
On the redpolls... 'common' has been added but not 'lesser' which seems highly unlikely to me. 'common' is only seen very rarely in Surrey.
Ken

Surreybirder · Dec 1, 2007

Coigach said:
I assume that you mean this page http://www.bto.org/birdatlas/taking_part/methods.htm

If so, I've read and re-read the page many times, and unless I'm going mad, at no point does it say, "record a seperate list for the first and second hour". I only found out about it when I saw the column on the form, when I came to enter the records today from 4 timed visits made over the past week.

I agree that the notes on that page aren't clear... but on the form itself the columns are headed: 1st hour count and 2nd hour count, which seems pretty clear to me.
Ken

Andrew · Dec 1, 2007

Bobby,

You need to make a record of all species seen during the first hour then start again and do a second hour's worth of counts. So if you see 54 Crows in the first hour then that goes in the first hour column and if you see, say, 43 Crows in the second hour then that goes into the second column. If you are still in the tetrad after that then any birds noted go into the 'Extra' column. Simple as that.

Cheers,
Andrew.

BTW : A handy tip for those who are annoyed by constantly looking at their watches/mobiles to keep tabs on the time. Go to the calendar function in your mobile phone if you have a Nokia and compile a note for the day with an alarm activated for an hour later. Put it in your pocket and forget it. It will ring/vibrate in an hour's time.

ColinD · Dec 1, 2007

Surreybirder said:
I agree that the notes on that page aren't clear... but on the form itself the columns are headed: 1st hour count and 2nd hour count, which seems pretty clear to me.
Ken

Ha! It may seem clear when you get to the record entry form, but surely you only go to that form after you have completed your first timed visit, at which stage it's a bit late. :C Why would you look at the form before you go on the timed visit??? In my case I went on four timed visits before I looked at the record entry form. I can't seperate the records now without guessing.

The instructions should be more clear on the notes page..

ColinD · Dec 1, 2007

Andrew said:
Bobby,

You need to make a record of all species seen during the first hour then start again and do a second hour's worth of counts. So if you see 54 Crows in the first hour then that goes in the first hour column and if you see, say, 43 Crows in the second hour then that goes into the second column. If you are still in the tetrad after that then any birds noted go into the 'Extra' column. Simple as that....

Thanks. Fortunately I've been visiting my tetrads weekly for years, so it's no great problem to do them again. I just find the lack of instructions frustrating..

Capercaillie71 · Dec 1, 2007

Coigach said:
Ha! It may seem clear when you get to the record entry form, but surely you only go to that form after you have completed your first timed visit, at which stage it's a bit late. :C Why would you look at the form before you go on the timed visit??? In my case I went on four timed visits before I looked at the record entry form. I can't seperate the records now without guessing.

The instructions should be more clear on the notes page..

I had the same confusion when I did my first TTV. I was just keeping a count for the whole two hours and only realised I was meant to keep separate counts when I came to fill the form in. Fortunately I hadn;t seen that many birds, and I knew roughly where I was when I reached the one hour point, so I was able to split the count reasonably accurately.

delia todd · Dec 1, 2007

I'm not feeling quite so stupid now:gh:

D

Surreybirder · Dec 1, 2007

In our Surrey Bird Club magazine (now called "Birding Surrey") the Surrey Regional Organiser wrote a very good article about the whole survey (with various points about how it was being modified in Surrey). It made all these points clear before I started doing any surveying. (I wish I could reproduce it here but I don't have the copyright and it would take quite a while to retype the whole thing.)
Even so, it was only when I read some of the posts here that I realised that you could record fly-over species as 'roving records'. I noted the TTV instructions not to record fly-overs and failed to note that you can record them in other circumstances. There's quite a lot to take in!
Ken

Mike Cook · Dec 2, 2007

Surreybirder said:
Even so, it was only when I read some of the posts here that I realised that you could record fly-over species as 'roving records'. I noted the TTV instructions not to record fly-overs and failed to note that you can record them in other circumstances. There's quite a lot to take in!
Ken

Oh damn. Here we go again. I emailed my RO about the F category for roving records and received a reply on 25 Nov that included the following:

The `F` catogary is only to be used in Roving records and then only in breeding season. If the birds were not using the tetrad, then they should not be recorded in either TTV's or Roving Records.

Correction. New information received. The statement above is wrong and the F category can be used in either season but only in roving records. Sorreee.|:$|

Mike

ColinD · Dec 2, 2007

Mike Cook said:
Quite why they are interested in flyovers only for roving records and only for the breeding season is not clear.

I didn't like mentioning it last night, coz people might start to think that I'm constantly picking at the thing, but where exactly does it tell you that you can't include flyovers for TTVs? It's a new one on me. Any thing else I should know before I start again with my TTVs?

How difficult is it to put proper instructions on the web site?

markgrubb · Dec 2, 2007

Coigach said:
I didn't like mentioning it last night, coz people might start to think that I'm constantly picking at the thing, but where exactly does it tell you that you can't include flyovers for TTVs? It's a new one on me. Any thing else I should know before I start again with my TTVs?

How difficult is it to put proper instructions on the web site?

There are proper instructions on the website but I agree they are not made that obvious-I think the confusion is caused by the fairly basic instructions on the introductory page about TTV's. What you are looking for is at http://www.bto.org/birdatlas/taking_part/ttv_instructions-lres.pdf

ColinD · Dec 2, 2007

markgrubb said:
There are proper instructions on the website but I agree they are not made that obvious-I think the confusion is caused by the fairly basic instructions on the introductory page about TTV's. What you are looking for is at http://www.bto.org/birdatlas/taking_part/ttv_instructions-lres.pdf

Thanks, that's much better.:t:

Surreybirder · Dec 2, 2007

markgrubb said:
There are proper instructions on the website but I agree they are not made that obvious-I think the confusion is caused by the fairly basic instructions on the introductory page about TTV's. What you are looking for is at http://www.bto.org/birdatlas/taking_part/ttv_instructions-lres.pdf

Mark, I was sent that sheet with all my TTV and Roving Record forms... but it looks as if others were not so lucky.
Re-reading it, it says that you should only count 'full-grown adult individuals' during the breeding season. So, if you see a flock of gulls, for example, you presumably have to go through them and decide how many are adults - not a problem I'm likely to have in Surrey!

On the Roving Records forms, it says: "For birds flying over please put F in the 'Code' column to signify this." It doesn't say anything about not doing so inside or outside the breeding season.
Ken

Surreybirder · Dec 2, 2007

Mike Cook said:
Hi Ken,
It looks as though there are some mixed messages going around about this. In Northumberland, our RO organised a meeting/Q&A session and we were told that not only could you do your early survey in November 2007 and your late one in January 2009. You could even reverse them and do your late survey in January 2008 and then do your early survey in November 2008 or November 2009.

Mike

Hi, Mike,
I looked on the FAQ section of the BTO Atlas site http://blx1.bto.org/atlas/
There it clearly states

+ If I do my winter TTVs this winter, can I postpone my summer TTVs till 2009 because of work commitments?
Yes, if necessary you can postpone the summer visits but please tell your RO so they know.

That's quite a useful page which I only just looked at. There are some interesting 'bending of the rules' suggestions... for example if you want to survey a bog in the middle of Sutherland, you can get away with just one TTV!

Ken

Surreybirder · Dec 2, 2007

Coigach said:
Thanks, that's much better.:t:

Sorry, I promise not to post any more for a while after this one. It occurs to me, Coigach, that you should simply halve your total counts and put the figures in the first and second hour columns. So if you saw 15 blue tits, just divide them 7 and 8. It won't make any difference to the final published results, bearing in mind that it's random where you walk in each hour. And all our individual results are a tiny proportion of the overall data that will make up the final atlas. According to the 'latest results' page, there have already been 5.3 million birds recorded. If you should have put 5 + 10 blue tits, I don't think it's going to adversely affect the final results.
Ken

Stewart J. · Dec 2, 2007

Yo All, have just had a reply from my RO re why no counts for Roving Reports and here is the reply hot off the press after Atlas Working Group meeting on Friday.

Species count in roving record table well its a long story. It was decided, by the Atlas Working Group (not unanimous), that the Atlas only required a registration of species in Roving Records and if observers had counts of significant species these could be entered via birdtrack. Now, after much debate (most of it last Friday)to help local atlases this will be changed. In future there will be a facility to include counts of significant species or counts. This will only be done via the website as all the paper forms have been printed. The website will take a little while to be amended as there is much work still to be carried out therefore in a queue, so in the meantime could you submitted counts via birdtrack, there is a link from the input page. Hope this helps.

Stewart

ColinD · Dec 2, 2007

Surreybirder said:
Sorry, I promise not to post any more for a while after this one. It occurs to me, Coigach, that you should simply halve your total counts and put the figures in the first and second hour columns. So if you saw 15 blue tits, just divide them 7 and 8. It won't make any difference to the final published results, bearing in mind that it's random where you walk in each hour. And all our individual results are a tiny proportion of the overall data that will make up the final atlas. According to the 'latest results' page, there have already been 5.3 million birds recorded. If you should have put 5 + 10 blue tits, I don't think it's going to adversely affect the final results.
Ken

Yes I was thinking along those lines myself. The tetrads I have visited are not particularly full of birds, and I suppose I could come to a reasonably good guestimate of how many I saw in each hour. Looking out of the window at the moment, it seems a preferable course of action to going outside again!

markgrubb · Dec 2, 2007

Surreybirder said:
Mark, I was sent that sheet with all my TTV and Roving Record forms... but it looks as if others were not so lucky.
Re-reading it, it says that you should only count 'full-grown adult individuals' during the breeding season. So, if you see a flock of gulls, for example, you presumably have to go through them and decide how many are adults - not a problem I'm likely to have in Surrey!

On the Roving Records forms, it says: "For birds flying over please put F in the 'Code' column to signify this." It doesn't say anything about not doing so inside or outside the breeding season.
Ken

2 very good points. I wonder if the gull point is an oversight. And it does seem bizarre that you can't record flyovers on your TTV form but can on the RR form. I might ask my RO on these issues

teamsaint · Dec 2, 2007

This is an even more stupid question

. Do we have to visit each tetrad twice in each season once over the the 4 years or do we have to visit it twice in each season every year?

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