Crud in binoculars (2 Viewers)

Alexis Powell · Dec 27, 2016

Nobody likes to see crud in their bins and I expect most makers do their best to avoid such problems and to catch mistakes before they leave the plant. Unfortunately, some units with problems slip though. For example, my Leica 8x42 Ultravid had imperfections in the outermost lens coatings of one of the objectives. Breathing on the objective to fog it (as I do sometimes when cleaning) revealed the perfectly reproduced pattern of a human palm print. Leica replaced the objective under warranty.

I've had assembly-related problems with all brands that I've dealt with (including Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, and Nikon among others), so I buy bins based on their design and specifications, not the manufacturer's reputation for clean assembly, then deal with issues via manufacturer warranty.

--AP

maico · Jan 20, 2017

The Meopta factory tour video shows prisms being handled with latex finger tip gloves unlike Zeiss. The assembly clean room has everyone suited up properly ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWBPvMw3AcQ

So, what did Allbino find when they tested the Meopta 10x42 HD

"That almost idyllic image is spoilt by the quality control – it seems the Czechs have to work on it much harder. When we glanced inside the binoculars and examined the prisms carefully we noticed strange damp patches on their edges. On the right prism there was a shiny object – a bigger speck of dust or even a glass or coating defect. If the Meopta is supposed to qualify as a top-of-the-range, premium instrument such a specimen shouldn’t have been sent to the shops at all."

http://www.allbinos.com/310-binoculars_review-Meopta_Meostar_B1_10x42_HD.html

ceasar · Jan 20, 2017

maico said:
The Meopta factory tour video shows prisms being handled with latex finger tip gloves unlike Zeiss. The assembly clean room has everyone suited up properly ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWBPvMw3AcQ

So, what did Allbino find when they tested the Meopta 10x42 HD

"That almost idyllic image is spoilt by the quality control – it seems the Czechs have to work on it much harder. When we glanced inside the binoculars and examined the prisms carefully we noticed strange damp patches on their edges. On the right prism there was a shiny object – a bigger speck of dust or even a glass or coating defect. If the Meopta is supposed to qualify as a top-of-the-range, premium instrument such a specimen shouldn’t have been sent to the shops at all."

http://www.allbinos.com/310-binoculars_review-Meopta_Meostar_B1_10x42_HD.html

They "examined the prisms carefully" when they "glanced" into them did they?:smoke::h?:

maico · Jan 20, 2017

ceasar said:
They "examined the prisms carefully" when they "glanced" into them did they?:smoke::h?:

You can see a surprising amount by angling a torch at both ends. Which elements are single coated etc, the prism joint and surfaces, elements edge painted, surplus grease etc.

safaridreaming · Jan 26, 2017

Maico you seem pretty set in your opinion - what exactly are you hoping to achieve from this discussion??

cheers
Jeelan

Bloodstriker · Jan 26, 2017

I find this conversation interesting. I noticed some dust inside my Conquest HD 10x42. I don't think this affects the performance, but is this something that I should take issue with?

maico · Jan 26, 2017

safaridreaming said:
Maico you seem pretty set in your opinion - what exactly are you hoping to achieve from this discussion??

cheers
Jeelan

Just an observation.

By crud I don't mean dust. Dust is harmless and commonplace in optics new and old.
Crud and spores can spread and excess lubrication can cause unnecessary haze on elements.

The other day I bought a vintage mid 1980's Nikkor 80-200 f4 zoom on ebay from a Japanese dealer for £100. Described as near mint, an internal inspection shows it to be as clear as the day it was made. Spotless and perfect in a way that some expensive binoculars today are not.

gunut · Jan 26, 2017

With that title.....shouldn't this be under the Leica or Swarovski bracket???....

maico · Feb 7, 2017

gunut said:
With that title.....shouldn't this be under the Leica or Swarovski bracket???....

How is does Swarovski rate for cleanliness when new ?

Here's another Zeiss where crumbs for someones packed lunch has somehow gotten into the left tube |8.|

http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/ZeissVictory10x42SF.htm

Gijs van Ginkel · Feb 7, 2017

Maico,
This weekend I visited together with Jan van Daalen the Meopta factory, so we could compare the working conditions of Leica, Steiner, Swarovski, Zeiss etc.)with the ones executed by Meopta and they are exactly the same: taking utmost care to avoid any pollution on the optical components with many many control steps.
So if you left a sandwich in your binoculars it may be a problem, but it seems very unlikely that this occurs at one of these companies.
Gijs van Ginkel

The-Wanderer · Feb 7, 2017

Roger Vine of scope views tells it straight, along with a couple of others, particularly about eye-relief. I admire him.

Gijs van Ginkel · Feb 7, 2017

The Wanderer, post 31,
One experiment that shows that an hypothesis is not correct proves that this hypothesis must be reformulated, so there goes my hypotheis, that top producers take utmost care to prevent that any dust or whatever pollutes the lenses and or prisms during the fabrication process of top quality binoculars. Nevertheless. it is very hard to understand when you watch the whole process that something like that can occur. The best thing to do, when you have something like that is to return the instrument to the company and ask for cleaning or a new instrument, since this is not acceptable. I am curious what the cause is of the small spectacles in the test report you refer to. Any irrregularities in the coating may yield a similar image.
Gijs van Ginkel

Binastro · Feb 7, 2017

I have had small spiders in binoculars.
Also bigger spiders.
Alien bugs? also.

And several live dust mites? walking endlessly around two camera screen fresnels in cameras bought from the same shop. I froze them several times to minus 18C, but gave them away anyway.
Stupid really as the lens alone now fetches £800.

Maybe we should start a binocular zoo.

maico · Feb 7, 2017

Gijs van Ginkel said:
Maico,
This weekend I visited together with Jan van Daalen the Meopta factory, so we could compare the working conditions of Leica, Steiner, Swarovski, Zeiss etc.)with the ones executed by Meopta and they are exactly the same: taking utmost care to avoid any pollution on the optical components with many many control steps.
So if you left a sandwich in your binoculars it may be a problem, but it seems very unlikely that this occurs at one of these companies.
Gijs van Ginkel

Those windows at 11.56 mins haven't been cleaned since 1945 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJIm6JH0LU

No gloves or hair nets in the ladies assembly area, nor signs of climate control so it's not a clean room...can't see any bottles of Czech Pilsener laying around though.

In the critical prism assembly and multi-coating area things at Meopta look much better and state of the art

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvXaa703Xm4

maico · Feb 7, 2017

Gijs van Ginkel said:
The Wanderer, post 31,
One experiment that shows that an hypothesis is not correct proves that this hypothesis must be reformulated, so there goes my hypotheis, that top producers take utmost care to prevent that any dust or whatever pollutes the lenses and or prisms during the fabrication process of top quality binoculars. Nevertheless. it is very hard to understand when you watch the whole process that something like that can occur. The best thing to do, when you have something like that is to return the instrument to the company and ask for cleaning or a new instrument, since this is not acceptable. I am curious what the cause is of the small spectacles in the test report you refer to. Any irrregularities in the coating may yield a similar image.
Gijs van Ginkel

Roger Vine mentions other Zeiss quality control issues in another of his reviews. I believe many of his test binos are private purchase not selected examples from the company test pools.

The-Wanderer · Feb 8, 2017

I do not know how old these images are but they do not indicate to me clean room assembly of bins at, I assume, Kunming.

http://www.binocularschina.com/aboutus.html

Troubador · Feb 8, 2017

maico said:
Roger Vine mentions other Zeiss quality control issues in another of his reviews. I believe many of his test binos are private purchase not selected examples from the company test pools.

I have heard of these super-selected pools of instruments and used to believe in them until I began visiting Bird Fair. You would imagine that the bins put out for folks to try at Bird Fair would be the best each company could nake but in my experience you can find duffers almost anywhere at Bird Fair.

So even though the idea of a pool of super-bins for reviewing sounds an obvious thing to do, I no longer believe in it.

Lee

The-Wanderer · Feb 8, 2017

Lee, maybe the staff do not know how to select the cherries, or that bins are put in the van without any selection process at all.

gunut · Feb 8, 2017

father worked as an inspector/repairman at an automotive producer....he was good at his job...so good he was put in a area where they would enhance cars that were to be shown at auto shows....he did this for a number of years....polishing out spot weld marks....extra sanding out of paint primers...extra care in lead work....all sorts of little nips and tucks....until the government stepped in and said you could pick the best example coming off the production line but no special enhancing unless all the cars produced received that treatment....

Troubador · Feb 8, 2017

The-Wanderer said:
Lee, maybe the staff do not know how to select the cherries, or that bins are put in the van without any selection process at all.

I think both of your suggestions apply.

Lee

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