IOC World Bird List 7.1 (1 Viewer)

davercox · Jan 25, 2017

I've only just twigged that this has been available for two weeks now.
Apologies if someone else has already posted.

Larry Sweetland · Jan 28, 2017

Nice one Dave. A few surprises there.

Nutcracker · Apr 21, 2017

IOC 7.2 has lumped all the small Calidrinae genera into Calidris; as expected, but:

Great Knot Calidris tenuirostris (Horsfield, 1821) EU : ne Siberia
Red Knot Calidris canutus (Linnaeus, 1758) NA, EU : n
Surfbird Calidris virgata (Gmelin, JF, 1789) NA : Alaska and nw Canada PHY, TAX Surfbird is moved from monotypic Aphriza to Calidris, after Red Knot (Gibson & Baker 2012, Banks, 2012).

If I've read the cited refs correctly, shouldn't Surfbird be next to Great Knot? The two are each others' closest relatives, with Red Knot sister to the pair of them. Therefore, the order should be either RedK, GreatK, Surf; or else GreatK, Surf, RedK; and not with RedK between the other two.

Can anyone contact IOC to check this?

MJB · Apr 22, 2017

Nutcracker said:
IOC 7.2 has lumped all the small Calidrinae genera into Calidris; as expected, but:

If I've read the cited refs correctly, shouldn't Surfbird be next to Great Knot? The two are each others' closest relatives, with Red Knot sister to the pair of them. Therefore, the order should be either RedK, GreatK, Surf; or else GreatK, Surf, RedK; and not with RedK between the other two.

Can anyone contact IOC to check this?

You can do it at [email protected], from their home page...

MJB

Frank Gill · Apr 22, 2017

Nutcracker said:
IOC 7.2 has lumped all the small Calidrinae genera into Calidris; as expected, but:

If I've read the cited refs correctly, shouldn't Surfbird be next to Great Knot? The two are each others' closest relatives, with Red Knot sister to the pair of them. Therefore, the order should be either RedK, GreatK, Surf; or else GreatK, Surf, RedK; and not with RedK between the other two.

Can anyone contact IOC to check this?

The relationships of these three in Gibson and Baker (Fig 1) are (tenuirostris (canutus, virgata)), so
Great Knot
Red Knot
Surfbird

See also H&M4 and NACC Supplement 54:

Genus Calidris Merrem, 1804
tenuirostris (Horsefield, 1821) Great Knot
canutus (Linnaeus, 1858) Red Knot
virgata (Gmelin, 1789) Surfbird

ok?

Andy Adcock · Apr 22, 2017

Frank Gill said:
The relationships of these three in Gibson and Baker (Fig 1) are (tenuirostris (canutus, virgata)), so
Great Knot
Red Knot
Surfbird

See also H&M4 and NACC Supplement 54:

Genus Calidris Merrem, 1804
tenuirostris (Horsefield, 1821) Great Knot
canutus (Linnaeus, 1858) Red Knot
virgata (Gmelin, 1789) Surfbird

ok?

This is what happens when amateurs get involved Frank! :-O

A

njlarsen · Apr 22, 2017

The relationships of these three in Gibson and Baker (Fig 1) are (tenuirostris (canutus, virgata)), so

So the distance from the last two to the first is the same and the last two can be given in either order -- unless I have misunderstood something.

Niels

Nutcracker · Apr 22, 2017

Frank Gill said:
The relationships of these three in Gibson and Baker (Fig 1) are (tenuirostris (canutus, virgata)), so
Great Knot
Red Knot
Surfbird

See also H&M4 and NACC Supplement 54:

Genus Calidris Merrem, 1804
tenuirostris (Horsefield, 1821) Great Knot
canutus (Linnaeus, 1858) Red Knot
virgata (Gmelin, 1789) Surfbird

ok?

Thanks! Somehow I'd managed to misread it as (canutus (tenuirostris, virgata)) - no idea how!

But interestingly, that is how they are arranged in another phylogeny that someone (LRaty? Richard Klim? Can't remember) posted here a while back (copy attached). Could it be that further analyses might find this a more accurate representation? Plumage pattern would suggest so.

l_raty · Apr 22, 2017

Nutcracker said:
But interestingly, that is how they are arranged in another phylogeny that someone (LRaty? Richard Klim? Can't remember) posted here a while back (copy attached). Could it be that further analyses might find this a more accurate representation? Plumage pattern would suggest so.

This file is mine (from [here]). It was based on a ML analysis of the data that Gibson and Baker had deposited in GenBank at the time their paper was published; but note the support given to this particular node is exceedingly low (51%). At a later point, Allan Baker deposited additional sequences in GenBank; with these added, I recovered tenuirostris sister to virgata ([here]) as in the paper, but still with very low support.
(The paper did not list the sequences that had been included in the original data set.)

Nutcracker · Apr 23, 2017

Frank Gill said:
The relationships of these three in Gibson and Baker (Fig 1) are (tenuirostris (canutus, virgata)), so
Great Knot
Red Knot
Surfbird

See also H&M4 and NACC Supplement 54:

Genus Calidris Merrem, 1804
tenuirostris (Horsefield, 1821) Great Knot
canutus (Linnaeus, 1858) Red Knot
virgata (Gmelin, 1789) Surfbird

ok?

Nutcracker said:
Thanks! Somehow I'd managed to misread it as (canutus (tenuirostris, virgata)) - no idea how!

Ah, found it! Gibson & Baker, page 71, last sentence of the first paragraph (bold = my emphasis):

However, strongly-supported nodes were recovered for several clades, such as (C. maritima, C. ptilocnemis), C. alpina), C. alba); (C. fuscicollis, C. minutilla); (C. mauri, C. pusilla); (C. ruficollis, E. pygmeus); (C. acuminata, L. falcinellus), P. pugnax); and ((A. virgata, C. tenuirostris), C. canutus).

So inconsistency between their own text and fig. 1?

IOC World Bird List 7.1 (1 Viewer)

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