Sounds to me like they're taking a shot at the world. If the optics of the Bushnell ED are indeed competitive with those of the ED bins you mentioned, at a lower price(who knows what street price will be with a $290 retail), with Bushnell warranty, service, plus brand recognition/stability, it seems like these things could wipe out an entire market.
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Bushnell Legend Ultra HD: $300 Chinese ED from Bushnell (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Kevin Purcell
- Start date
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Or encourage them to drop their prices to match.
More conversations after the SHOT show show that Bosma can deliver their ED bins (previously mentioned) with a small minimum order that results in a dealer selling for $250 shipped. That's retail price not wholesale dealer price.
BTW, I took the Legends I have birding recently they are rather good for low mid-range bins.
I also used them in a stray light test (see the Zen Ray thread) where they performed amazingly well just behind my Zeiss FL and better than the good Elite. The narrow 6.5 degree (so not that narrow) FOV helps a lot!
I don't expect the stray light in these new (wide FOV) bins to be as good but it shows that Bushnell is doing something right.
Yeah, I was actually going to edit to include "or rearrange the price structure".
I gave both of the 8x42 Legend roofs that I bought as gifts. My best friend(cop) called me the other night telling me about a drug bust, and how he'd been watching some guys with the Legends, had descriptions ready for the officers going in of who had what, and even which pocket one of the guys had put some drugs in. He's very pleased with them.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Though it does look like the Elite got a minor bump (from the PR it gets Rainguard HD ... tougher, more hydrophobic and lower absorption of light). But curiously no ED glass. Seems rather odd.
Perhaps there are two tracks related to where the bins are made at Bushnell?
Or perhaps they see "Made in Japan" as a selling point for their premium product?
Or perhaps they're working on a Chinese redesign.
I guess we'll have a better feel when these Legend Ultra-HD ships.
Opticsplanet now have a picture of the bin: it's Legend-like closed-hinge design with slightly more rounded (and less Leica-ish) look.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-8x42-legend-ultra-hd-binoculars-black-roof-198042.html
Not sure I like the ridges swooping down over the hinge. Isn't that where my fingers go? But I suspect they may be the "soft touch accents"
It also looks like the prices quoted in the PR are street/MAP (with the silly made up MSRP quote for comparison).
A fluorite glass ... that's interesting.
Oh, and the spec
Quite clearly typed up by a male with his mind elsewhere.
The 10x42 is here.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-10x42-legend-ultra-hd-binoculars-rainguard.html
Not sure if they're actually available yet. I suspect not.
FrankD
Well-known member
I have to say that the more I see of them the more I am attracted to them. All these high end features at the $300 price point. There has to be some catch.
Maybe we are seeing the second wave of ED Chinese bins...shorter, lighter and with the conventional bridge design.
Who might we next see one from?
Maybe we are seeing the second wave of ED Chinese bins...shorter, lighter and with the conventional bridge design.
Who might we next see one from?
mooreorless
Well-known member
The Legend Ultra HD 8x42 must be stopped down with exit pupil of 4.5 on the Howard site info.
Steve
Steve
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
The catch: they won't deal with stray light as well as the current Legend 8x42 roof with that wider FOV. An ED version (sharper, minimal CA and alpha class stray light handling) of the Legend 8x42 roof would actually be a killer bin even with a narrower FOV.
I'm hoping for something very good (of course). We know what the Chinese ODMs have been doing with inexpensive ED bins.
But Bushnell have been inconsistent before e.g. the Excursions are rather good for their price class but the Excursion EX 8x36 I had was rather poor for its (love the open bridge; hated the optics). The Legend 8x42 is very good in it's price class (best $200 bin at the moment, IMHO). So is this more like a Legend bin (as the name suggests) or more like an Excursion EX design with some window dressing?
No, I didn't order them. Yet.
I'll wait for stock probably at Eagle Optics. Plus I'm still working on the Zen Rays (and have plenty of other things to play with too!).
I doubt these people have stock just getting their web site up to date. There is no in stock notice (unlike EO).
The Legend Ultra HD 8x42 must be stopped down with exit pupil of 4.5 on the Howard site info.
Steve
Yeah. I noted that at the top of the thread. I suspect it's just a typo. Fine details doesn't seem to be a strength of some people in this business
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FrankD
Well-known member
You are correct about the availability issue. I just received a call today from a gentleman at Opticsplanet. They are not in stock there nor are they in stock at Bushnell yet apparently.
I am guessing that you are probably correct about the stray light issue but it will be fun to give them a go just to see what $290 traditional hinge ED bins can do.
I do agree with your comment about the Bushnell Legend roofs being one of the best $200 bins at the moment though I think the Cascade porro outshines them, pun intended, a bit. I was just doing a side by side and noticed how much more the Cascade porro handles color fringing better, has better edge sharpness and a brighter view overall. I think the Cascade porro is still the most overlooked bin currently on the market. Other than a preference for roof handling I do not see how an individual might choose any of the $300 roofs over it.
I am guessing that you are probably correct about the stray light issue but it will be fun to give them a go just to see what $290 traditional hinge ED bins can do.
I do agree with your comment about the Bushnell Legend roofs being one of the best $200 bins at the moment though I think the Cascade porro outshines them, pun intended, a bit. I was just doing a side by side and noticed how much more the Cascade porro handles color fringing better, has better edge sharpness and a brighter view overall. I think the Cascade porro is still the most overlooked bin currently on the market. Other than a preference for roof handling I do not see how an individual might choose any of the $300 roofs over it.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Well, there is the FOV. I'm even the sort of guy who can be quite happy with smaller FOV but the Cascades and Legend 6.4 degrees FOV seems smaller than it is (especially in the Cascades on a casual look: another porro vs roof illusion?). So that might put people off especially with a bias to bigger FOVs.
But that said the specs are a very close match (almost the same FOV, weight, similar size, ER, etc)
I shall add Legend 8x42 vs Cascades porro to my list of bins to AB test when birding.
That list is not shrinking
When doing the stray light testing on the Legend 8x42 I noticed the CA (which I hadn't before but thin backlit branches do show the effect rather well!)
FrankD
Well-known member
I was thinking along the lines of the Cascade porro in comparison to the Legend roof, Monarch, etc.... They have very similar fields of view, eye relief, etc... and since the Cascade porros are of the internal focus design they don't have any of the other inexpensive porros' drawbacks. Dont' get me wrong I actually like the Legend roofs optical performance for its original price point (around $320 IIRC) and cannot argue at all with its performance for what I paid for it but I think at $209 the Cascade porro is a better option to all of the typical $300 roof prism models that have been on the market in recent years....at least the 8x42 models.
...and I am sure your list is getting quite long....but a heck of alot of fun too.
...and I am sure your list is getting quite long....but a heck of alot of fun too.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
The Legend was $300 but it's now down to $200 and something which makes it rather good value (even though I got these for a lot less).
But a good ABC (as I have them all) is the Legend 8x42 roof, Cascades 8x40 and the Pentax HS 8x36. All have 6.4 degree (or 6.5 degree) FOVs and similar weights.
A quick check out the window shows the Legend and the HS to be quite similar but the Cascades to be a little brighter and a bit more natural. A epoxy painted glossy blue iron bench has a rather more realistic "pop" in the Cascades compared to the two roofs. Perhaps a little brighter too.
I didn't check stray ligh issues but from what I recall the Legend and the HS are a lot more solid in this respect than the Cascades (no one cuts slots in porro prisms these days!). I suspect it might be easier to make a roof immune to stray light than a porro just because everything is all in one line (no odd rays to consider).
It would be something to consider to limit the FOV to make a very solid (almost alpha in all regards except FOV) $300 bin.
But a good ABC (as I have them all) is the Legend 8x42 roof, Cascades 8x40 and the Pentax HS 8x36. All have 6.4 degree (or 6.5 degree) FOVs and similar weights.
A quick check out the window shows the Legend and the HS to be quite similar but the Cascades to be a little brighter and a bit more natural. A epoxy painted glossy blue iron bench has a rather more realistic "pop" in the Cascades compared to the two roofs. Perhaps a little brighter too.
I didn't check stray ligh issues but from what I recall the Legend and the HS are a lot more solid in this respect than the Cascades (no one cuts slots in porro prisms these days!). I suspect it might be easier to make a roof immune to stray light than a porro just because everything is all in one line (no odd rays to consider).
It would be something to consider to limit the FOV to make a very solid (almost alpha in all regards except FOV) $300 bin.
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FrankD
Well-known member
Folks can laugh at me all they like (not you Kevin,
) but that is pretty much what I think of the Cascade porros. They have Alpha level brightness, alpha level sharpness, good edge sharpness/low levels of distortion and they have excellent handling. I have not really noted the stray light issues you mentioned but that is, admittedly, something I was not really looking for with them. I will have to put them under some more difficult lighting conditions to see if I can cause it to give me some problems in that area.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I noticed at Eagle Optics that they have two Bushnell Hot Deals: on the Infinity 8.5x45 and the Elite E2 8x42
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/bushnell/bushnell-infinity-8-5x45-binocular
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/bushnell/bushnell-elite-e2-8x42-binocular
I wonder if they're cleaning up their mid-range with the arrival of the Legend Ultra-HD?
They seem to have too many not too well distinguished families that don't seem in toocommon use. Plus the E2 are diluting the Elite brand. Can we hope for just the Elite and the Legend at the top and middle of the range? Or would that be too logical
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/bushnell/bushnell-infinity-8-5x45-binocular
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/bushnell/bushnell-elite-e2-8x42-binocular
I wonder if they're cleaning up their mid-range with the arrival of the Legend Ultra-HD?
They seem to have too many not too well distinguished families that don't seem in toocommon use. Plus the E2 are diluting the Elite brand. Can we hope for just the Elite and the Legend at the top and middle of the range? Or would that be too logical
FrankD
Well-known member
I am still struggling with the question of why they have not added the ED glass to the Elite. Unless the Legend Ultra suffers from stray light issues or noticeably annoying field curvature I would question why one would not choose it over the Elite?
...oh, and do a quick google on "Legend Ultra Scope". They are introducing a 50 mm (at least at this point) model that looks really interesting. I think the price range was $300-$350.
...oh, and do a quick google on "Legend Ultra Scope". They are introducing a 50 mm (at least at this point) model that looks really interesting. I think the price range was $300-$350.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I know it's a bit of a mystery.
It rather sounds like two or more different product groups working on the bins rather than a coherent strategy from on high.
Though I never felt the Bushnell product line was particularly coherent. It has a feel of the Microsoft Vista with the 9 or 10 or whatever version all slightly different from each other. But at least you can arrange them in order.
You mentioned seeing them for $240. I presume at BandH (though note they charge cards when you order ... I suspect they have no idea when the bins will appear but they will get your money!).
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/598315-REG/Bushnell_198042_8x42_LEGEND_ULTRA_HD.html
I did actually notice this when starting this thread. I meant to start another thread with the Howard PR.
http://howardcommunications.com/bus...new-spotting-scopes-to-the-legend-series.html
Very interesting in that they have two scopes in the range: a 50mm and an 80mm but no 65mm. Interesting idea.
The 12-36x 50mm ED glass objective too. Fixed EP(?). Straight or angled. Sounds like a the poor man's Nikon 50ED?
http://www.opticsblog.com/2009/02/bushnell-legend-ultra-hd.html
http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-legend-ultra-hd-12-36x50-spotting-scope-ed-glass-black.html
Magnification: 12-36x
Objective: 50
Rainguard HD: Yes
Lens Coating: Fully Multi
Field of view (ft.@1000yds. / m@1000m): 179/59@12x / 90/30@36x
Exit Pupil (mm): 4.2@12x / 1.4@36x
Close Focus: 15 ft.
Weight (oz. / g): 36.3 / 1030
Length (in. / mm):
786350ED: 10.5 / 267
786350ED: 9.75 / 248
Waterproof/Fogproof: Yes
Other Eyepieces Available: No
Eye relief: 17mm
Features of Bushnell 12-36 x50 Legend Ultra HD Spotting Scops:
ED Prime Extra-Low Dispersion glass
2-speed dual focus controls
Rainguard HD water-repellent lens coating
100% waterproof
BaK-4 prisms
Fully multi-coated optics
Compact porro prism design
Long eye relief
Close focusing
Zoom eyepiece
Soft case and tripod included
The 80mm is the usual 20-60x80mm ED glass scope but no straight version only in the angled form for $500.
Again the positioning close to the more expensive but similar Elite models is interesting. The warrantee differs perhaps? But how much better will the Elite scopes be?
This could be a very interesting quartet!
I guess this hasn't affected the pricing of the new (old?) Nikon Premier LX 8x42 at $1300
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Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Bushnell PR PDF is here
http://marketing.bushnell.com/press/pdf/Legend Ultra HD Binoculars.pdf
They require a password to get into the press part of the site
http://marketing.bushnell.com/
but allow Google to index the content so you can link directly to the PR. Go figure
It's the same as the original PR
http://howardcommunications.com/bus...erformance-in-legend-ultra-hd-binoculars.html
The interesting thing about the PR is it differs from the opticsplanet.net numbers. They quote numbers very similar to the Excursion. And I know I don't quite see the full field on my 10x42 Excursion (or the similar 10x Zen Ray) with it's eye relief. Bummer, I thought I still won't get the 10x I really want to play with.
But in the PR they're quoting 21mm ER for both 10x and 8x. And they even comment on the good ER in the PR. So I might see the whole field when wearing glasses with the 10x. Very, very interesting.
Oh, and they have a 4.5mm exit pupil for the 8x42 which doesn't make much sense.
http://marketing.bushnell.com/press/pdf/Legend Ultra HD Binoculars.pdf
They require a password to get into the press part of the site
http://marketing.bushnell.com/
but allow Google to index the content so you can link directly to the PR. Go figure
It's the same as the original PR
http://howardcommunications.com/bus...erformance-in-legend-ultra-hd-binoculars.html
The interesting thing about the PR is it differs from the opticsplanet.net numbers. They quote numbers very similar to the Excursion. And I know I don't quite see the full field on my 10x42 Excursion (or the similar 10x Zen Ray) with it's eye relief. Bummer, I thought I still won't get the 10x I really want to play with.
But in the PR they're quoting 21mm ER for both 10x and 8x. And they even comment on the good ER in the PR. So I might see the whole field when wearing glasses with the 10x. Very, very interesting.
Oh, and they have a 4.5mm exit pupil for the 8x42 which doesn't make much sense.
FrankD
Well-known member
You put so much info into that last post that my head is still spinning as I type this-siht....
I did not know they had an 80 mm ED Ultra scope. I must have missed that when I was doing the search. I have to question that though as their current 80 mm FLP ED model is selling for between $400-$450. Again, why market two similar products within a similar price range.
I am at a loss.
I guess we will just have to wait and see what type of optical performance all of these new ED optics provide. If they are as good as I am sure we are all hoping they will be then it does not bode well for many of the mid-range optics that aren't ED in both the spotting scope and binocular market.
I did not know they had an 80 mm ED Ultra scope. I must have missed that when I was doing the search. I have to question that though as their current 80 mm FLP ED model is selling for between $400-$450. Again, why market two similar products within a similar price range.
I am at a loss.
I guess we will just have to wait and see what type of optical performance all of these new ED optics provide. If they are as good as I am sure we are all hoping they will be then it does not bode well for many of the mid-range optics that aren't ED in both the spotting scope and binocular market.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Yeap, Frank, it seems like either a major market grab or a big ruse. Time will tell
You put so much info into that last post that my head is still spinning as I type this-siht....
Frank,
Are you, by any chance, afflicted with a touch of dyslexia?
Bob
