What can you get for £15 ($21) these days? (1 Viewer)

Well, a pair of these it seems. New Baigish, 8x30 from China. I don't know why, just bored and curious I guess, as I left an overnight bid of $21 free p&p, and awoke to find I won them. Well for £15 I was not expecting much at all, one for the grand kids to play with, but when they came I was amazed, ok, they cant match a serious binocular, top range or mid range even, but I have had binoculars costing 4 or 5 times as much that are no better than these. All metal construction, they look like the soviet era Russian bins, but are almost certainly made in China I would think, so materials quality would be questionable, however optically they are half decent, sharp clear view, tad dark but have not got that yellow tint Russian bins usually have, pretty color neutral. Tested them against a pair of 8x30 Jenoptems, and they fared quite well really, Jenoptems were of course better, a bit sharper, better FOV and less CA, but for £15 !!! how do they do it? . Even the case, although cheap vinyl, is well padded and better than those canvas bags some top brands used to supply.
They would be fine for a beginner or youngster.

. Although the photo does not come up very large, to me this seem like a regular Russian-made Baigish 8×30 binocular the same as has been made for decades either Soviet or Russian.
Normally, I am told that they have a yellowish tint although maybe now they are using white glass.
I've had many of these and admittedly they are cheap, well very cheap at £15 delivered.
They used to be £13.50 decades ago then went up to £20 and lately maybe £40.
However, the Chinese supplier probably bought a lot of them.. It could be that production went to China but I'm not convinced of this. It even has the same case as the later Russian 8×30.
The 10×40 has a very tight almost impossible fitting case although the 12×45 seems better.
Earlier, they had a standard type leather case rather hard dimpled.

The Yukon binoculars I think are probably designed and may be made in Russia or one of the ex-Soviet countries.
Some of them are very good although some have serious quality control issues.
But the glass in them is pretty white and may come from a Chinese glass plant or it could be that at long last the Russians have changed their glass mix.

I think that Chinese glass in particular is very cheap nowadays, although initially some of it was very poor. Even Chinese ED glass of the lower qualities is probably very cheap nowadays and some of the Chinese ED binoculars have a price premium which seems unjustified by merely the change in glass type. In my experience they are also improved in general quality over the similar non-ED binocular.

Mind you it may well be impossible to tell where anything is made nowadays unless you are an insider.

With larger scale photos from different angles I may have a better idea whether it is identical to the Russian binocular, although from what I can see on the small-scale it seems Russian-made.
However, the Russian binoculars and certainly the Soviet ones generally had full instructions in Russian or English with a quality control signature of the person at final check. It also had resolution and all other specifications on it.
but for a large Chinese order even if made in Russia they may not have done this and it may be that the overall quality was not as good as the export version of the 8×30.

I would think that the ones for the Russian military are of higher standard than the civilian versions. They also often came with coloured clip on filters for the eyepieces.

A Russian speaker tells me some 'Russian' leaflets are actually Ukrainian and difficult for her as some words are quite different.

The binocular looks genuine year 2013 number 8,000 about, as far as I can tell from indistinct serial number.
The seller may have bought a thousand at a good price non export version.

Binastro said:

A Russian speaker tells me some 'Russian' leaflets are actually Ukrainian and difficult for her as some words are quite different.
The binocular looks genuine year 2013 number 8,000 about, as far as I can tell from indistinct serial number.
The seller may have bought a thousand at a good price non export version.

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Hi Binastro,

Well maybe they are made in Russia, but they definitely do not have the yellow tint that my soviet era Komz have, they are pretty neutral, they are not quite as sharp as the older ones either. They did have a cert in Russian and English. Have posted a couple of pics from another angle.
Thanks, Ben.

. Hi Ben,
this seems to be the normal 8×30 made in the normal factory.
I bought six new ones about 2001, but these were for proper export to Britain and they had the extra quality control checks and maybe more care in manufacture.
I paid from memory about £11 or £12 including VAT and I think including delivery.
The certificates are also individually signed and I'm not sure if you're one has the final checker signature.
the M is I think for multi coating.
two of mine have reticules as I wanted to see what they were like. The price was the same.
There are also available in various different finishes and also the ridiculous ruby coating. I hope nobody wants that.

I would think that the ones bought from China may not have the same quality as the export regular ones. Although they are probably still quite good. They are normally rugged and do genuinely work at -40°. They are normally sloppy mechanically but they do work and I think it is this sloppiness that allows them to work in all weathers.
At least with the export ones and probably the regular ones they have some kind of sealing material which is more or less waterproof even though the binoculars are not really waterproof.
Apparently this Russian sealing material works quite well.

Russian tolerances apparently work on the principle that they are about right.
This may mean that parts of not truly interchangeable and each binocular is hand assembled.

In a way it is a pity that the quality is slightly degraded to get the price down to £15 instead of perhaps £30.
Generally, things that originate from China do so at low prices but often poor quality. However, I would think that these binoculars are pretty good and will last a long time whereas some of the Chinese made cheaper binoculars are basically junk.
It is quite likely that 50% of every binocular that has been made in China should never have left the factory gate.
The junk that is sold even by British newspapers by mail order made in China defies belief. And on the Internet is still cannot believe the fraudulent binoculars that are offered with misleading and basically fraudulent advertising.

But at least we should be positive and these Russian made 8×30 binoculars are definitely worth £15 and actually 2 or 3 times that.

The Russian or Ukrainian text includes details of the 10×40 which is not very good and the 12×45 which is very good.
again I think that most of these are available with or without reticules and also in many different finishes.

There is also the 15×50 but maybe this is not made any more or only in limited quantities. All these binoculars have basically the same bodies.

I gave some of the 8×30 binoculars as birthday presents and there are still being used and will properly go on for many years.

Some of the new cases or pouches are a problem as far too tight and are simply undersized. Maybe they have altered these so they now fit properly. Originally they were in leather cases. And they were supplied with one or two pairs of coloured filters.

. It seems that they may have cut corners as the leaflet does not seem to have the serial number or any final checkers signature.
This may be part of a bulk order where the main thing was to get the price down to a minimum. it is likely that some of the quality has suffered as a result of this.

I wonder how much carriage costs from China and whether in fact they do bulk deliveries which are sorted out in the UK.
How much of the £15 do you think is the carriage price?

If I was thinking of selling these I would think that I would expect to get £22-£25 plus some carriage costs.
At £15 there is a profit but labour costs must be minimal.
Nowadays people seem to know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

This is not really a criticism as I may sometimes be a part of this system but I regret a past world where quality mattered.

Hi Binastro,
Yes, for £15 they are good value no doubt of that. I would guess that the postage cost would be around £2 to £3 max, so that makes them about the same price as you paid. And yes, the case is a little on the tight side.

As an amusing aside, I received today a letter from China, from a name very similar to the payee on the site I bought these binoculars from. He is now the chairman of a National Chinese bank !!! and it seems a relative of mine has passed away intestate in an accident in China and if we act quickly and in confidence we can share the $8 million he has in the bank, you wont be surprised to know that for this to happen he just needs a few financial details from me ??? They must think we were all born yesterday.

I plink in the low-cost area from time to time for fun. I've noticed what you can get
for $20US was pretty good 4 to 2 years ago but since things have gone downhill.
A Celestron CloseUp 10x25 2 yrs ago was awesome for a nephew at xmas. I tried last
year and it was awful...fuzzy 2/3 of the field, dim... I cracked the pair open, and
while the front and back glass were like the original, the stuff inside was a bit scary.
There was a plastic field lens, smudged small roof prism...what a shame.
Good thing I didn't wrap it up! A 10$ Tasco at WalMart was like that last month..
impressive outer surface, fuzzy as a Joan Collins glycerine portrait.

I'm getting a little 8x21 Olympus for a kid this time. It's $30 but it's solid and crisp.
I think the 'too good' days are ending.

OPTIC_NUT said:

I plink in the low-cost area from time to time for fun. I've noticed what you can get
for $20US was pretty good 4 to 2 years ago but since things have gone downhill.
A Celestron CloseUp 10x25 2 yrs ago was awesome for a nephew at xmas. I tried last
year and it was awful...fuzzy 2/3 of the field, dim... I cracked the pair open, and
while the front and back glass were like the original, the stuff inside was a bit scary.

Click to expand...

I know what you mean about the stuff inside some of these, I bought a low cost Chinese 20x50 a while back, had read they were good optically, and in fact they did give a half decent view, apart from some very noticeable CA, but I then unscrewed the objectives to take a peek inside and quickly screwed them back on because it looked as though if I even breathed to hard on what was inside I might mess up something. Gave them away.

Now, I had a look inside the vintage Chinon 7x35 I bought cheap recently:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2848563#post2848563
and that was amazingly well put together, inside it is built like a tank, the prism shelf, screws, brackets all substantial, solid and firm, everything easy to see and get at, superb workmanship.

Things were mix-n-match in Japan then, with some very fine parts.
Those 7x35 Chinons I would classify as "big-shouldered binolux-style 11 degree with
early empire knobs and hard steel swift-nighthawk focuser:...heh. Excellent sharpness.
I love that particular focuser. Almost a twin to my top pair, a 7x35
"Carl Wetlzlar"(not zeiss, a faux name) Imperials originally sold in Canada.
That style keeps really well across the decades, mechanically. The prisms don't
yellow either. Monstrous view, a bit fuzzy at the edges but sharp across most of
the field. I have a binolux with your focuser but a shorter chassis. That was a rare
design.

The old ultrawides are fantastic for searching unfamiliar territory that's dense.

From that era, you can get amazing binocs at auction pretty cheap. Lasting is the
question. For optical quality, the Sans+Streiffe looks best when it works,
but they can be a heart-breaker for loosing alignment.
The old Binolux seem to hold up better.

Tasco once did a model just like that, in 1969. More quality than their usual.
They had more gaps, though, so the ones I got had a little nicotine yellow
on the prisms.

Used can be great bang for the buck (or pound). You just have to be
sanguine when a certain portion arrive bumped or moldy...

If you are willing to go on ebay and are also willing to pay shipping costs, (and are lucky) you can get some older but solid binoculars made in Japan.
John

John Dracon said:

If you are willing to go on ebay and are also willing to pay shipping costs, (and are lucky) you can get some older but solid binoculars made in Japan.
John

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John,
So right, some good bargains to be had there, though you have to take a chance on condition. I picked up these Japanese made Hilkinson Observer RSPB bins for £14 plus shipping on there, they are pretty good.

Here in the UK we have a lot of charity shops which sell stuff given to them, not sure what the equivalent might be in the USA, or if you have them? Anyway, I have picked up some bargains in them now and then, recently a mint Swift Focus Aerolite 8x40 for £15, and I spotted a cased binocular in one shop going for £6, (say $4) the binocular was cheap and broken, but it was in an almost mint vintage Carl Zeiss 8x30 leather hard case, I bought them just for the case, which are always sought after.

Bencw said:

As an amusing aside, I received today a letter from China, from a name very similar to the payee on the site I bought these binoculars from. He is now the chairman of a National Chinese bank !!! and it seems a relative of mine has passed away intestate in an accident in China and if we act quickly and in confidence we can share the $8 million he has in the bank, you wont be surprised to know that for this to happen he just needs a few financial details from me ???

Click to expand...

Amazing! Was this actually a snail-mail letter or an e-mail? Perhaps if you buy a pair of Swaros, you´ll get a similar letter from Austria and can put all your winnings in a Swiss bank account.
Some of this Komz-Baigish stuff is impressive. I bought a mini draw-scope from a Polish chap living here, and it´s an excellent little pocket scope, 8-24x50, although at higher powers in all but the best lighting conditions there´s a weird veiling glare that seems to emanate from inside the tube, if that´s possible. Hope it´s not radioactive.

although at higher powers in all but the best lighting conditions there´s a weird veiling glare that seems to emanate from inside the tube, if that´s possible. Hope it´s not radioactive.

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As Nietzsche might say:
"
And when you gaze long into a spyglass the spyglass also gazes into you" ;-)

Sancho said:

Amazing! Was this actually a snail-mail letter or an e-mail? Perhaps if you buy a pair of Swaros, you´ll get a similar letter from Austria and can put all your winnings in a Swiss bank account.
Some of this Komz-Baigish stuff is impressive. I bought a mini draw-scope from a Polish chap living here, and it´s an excellent little pocket scope, 8-24x50, although at higher powers in all but the best lighting conditions there´s a weird veiling glare that seems to emanate from inside the tube, if that´s possible. Hope it´s not radioactive.

Click to expand...

Hi Sancho,
It was a posted letter not an email, I guess they must get some takers or they wouldn't bother.
Some of those soviet era optics are very good, I have bought a couple of old Komz, which were good but quite mucky and needed a clean, I too often wondered if they could have been be salvaged from Chernobyl !!

Hi there
I generally use a pair of 8x30 binoculars by Charles frank 1971 circa metal body from Glasgow.. but to optic nuts 8x21 binoculars for a youngster which I,m sure a youngster
would be pleased with, some 10 years ago or more I received not ordered but as a (free) gift a pair of 8x21 binoculars alongside a purchased product I had ordered
through the post, there is no manufacturers name all I know is there green rubber armoured one right focuseing eyepiece and focuseing central wheel with fold down
eye cups and around 4" in length and wide in diameter when opened out they close
down to about 2" they have white glass and they have a field of vision of 130 m at
1000 m along with a small vinyl case and a pk of silicone gel to help keep moisture
at bay, they can fit in your pocket with ease and you can forget their there as the
whole package weighs only ounces, I hardly use them but when I do I,m pleased
I have got them with me I wonder where these were made and how generous they
were sending them out overseas free of charge.

. There were many radioactive optics from 1940 to 1978. That is the glass itself was radioactive.
However, despite measuring well over 100 Soviet and Russian optics I have not found any with more than nominal readings.
They did have some rare earth glasses in their lenses but they are not thorium or uranium.
that is not to say there is no example of a Soviet lens or eyepiece containing thorium glass but I don't think they were available commercially.
In fact I think that the Soviets were pretty ethical as they must've known from the Aero Ektars that thorium glass exists and I'm pretty sure there are mines in Russia producing this or it comes naturally from sands.

Is the 8x to 24x Russian or ex-Soviet spotting scope 50 mm aperture or 40 mm aperture? I have forgotten which it is.

The Wilkinsons look a lot like early Empire binocs.
Very slow focuser...leads to good sharpness.

The eyepieces look generous, but not ultrawide.
The focuser arms are a very rigid type.

Features like that can be looked for at the auctions.
Right now, people mainly just snipe at the famous names,
so fantastic values can be had. Cleaning at least the outside of the
lenses is key: how to make a "damp" swab from a wet one,
going through many, etc.

Looking at a shop is always very valuable.
Is the front iris long and dark? (when it looks straight inside it's actually conical)
You focus the pair, you hold the objectives at arm's
length to look for prism dirt, etc. Diffuse mold is really bad.
"Black Dirt" (plastic bits, rust, lamp black bits) is nowhere near as disruptive
and far easier to remove.

Or...you could just look through a pair that's awesome right out of the box.

In terms of resolution and contrast, some very old porros can
match some very new mid-priced roofs. Of course, some cost big in their time.

But...allow for write-offs and heart-breaks.
Still worth it by a mile, but you have to accept a dud now and then.
Shipping can be perilous. (another reason to check local consignment
shops, so you can meet your horse and walk it home easy)

I'm starting to take apart old premiums with one busted side to make
monoculars. You have to use bolts to make a "slide focuser", but it works.
It was sloppy until I found some wall-anchor bolts that filled in for the bushing.
Takes a bit of invention.