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Vortex Viper 65mm HDa Zoom vs Pentax PF II 65mm Zoom (1 Viewer)

I very recently had the opportunity to compare the Vortex Viper HDa 65mm zoom scope with the Pentax PF 65 EDII zoom scope. Both were angled scopes. At high zoom there was no comparison. The Viper blew the doors off of the Pentax. The sharpness was much more apparent on the Viper and the light at maximum zoom was considerably brighter with the Viper. I was very impressed at how much sharper the Viper was when looking at details at 400 yards distance. Icing on the cake is the Viper is $200 less than the Pentax.

The side-by-side test was done on an overcast day.
 
The Pentax zoom is 20x-60X while the Vortex Viper 65 is 15x-45x so is normal that the scope would look brighter and sharper at that side of their zoom range..If you could compare the scopes at similar power,then the comparison would have more interest..The Pentax can be fitter with a 15-45x zoom as well,like the Vixen zoom for instance,That would probably be a very equal performance..It would be also interesting to compare the Pentax 65 fitted with one of the Pentax XW eyepieces ,either the 20mm(19.5X) or the 14 mm (27.8X) With the Vortex Viper equiped qith a wide angle fix power eyepiece.Unfortunately I dont think the Viper can change eyepiece,.Perhaps this would be enough to justify the price difference..But I dont think the Viper is 200 dollars cheaper either..I see the viper around 500 dollars and the pentax about the same or less without eyepiece.Again,pentax can take hundreds of different astronomy eyepieces,some of them excellent and very inexpensive..
I like the cantilever rail on the Viper though..
 
You are probably correct about the 45X vs 60X on the two scopes. However, the image at 60X on the Pentax was so badly degraded I would never use it. My target in this test was communications gear on a water tower about 1/4 mile away. With the Viper at max zoom I got a sharp, still bright image of even the coax connectors and the cabling. With the Pentax at full zoom the images were so blurred I could not make out the connectors. As for lens interchangeability, yes, Vortex makes a fixed eyepiece for the Viper ... 25X/32X. The Pentax twist lock mechanism is probably easier if one is changing lenses in the field, but one can go with a fixed lens for the Vortex as well. As for price, I don't know where you are getting this $500 price. Every dealer I whose Web site I have visited in the U.S. is sticking to the "fair trade" price of $649 for this scope. The Pentax price is $899 for the angled scope fitted with the Pentax zoom eyepiece. For that price I can buy the Viper 80mm HD scope with even more light gathering ability! Where are you seeing the $500 price???

For those with deep pockets, I would not even bother with these lower end scopes. i would go directly to a Leica or Swarovski scope with their superior optics. For me and other people on a budget, it is all about price-performance. I'm looking for a scope that has a good image and fits into my budget. I've been birding for 22 years with a Bushnell Spacemaster. It's a great little scope in bright light. At dawn and dusk it just doesn't cut the mustard. I'm not touting the Viper as the greatest scope on the planet. I just think its price-performance is better than the Pentax or the Nikon.

The Nikon Fieldscope 65mm is no doubt the king of the 65mm scope world, but is is more than twice the price! I didn't even bother to look at it. It was out of my price range, but I would bet the differences between the Viper 65mm HD and the 65mm Fieldscope are minuscule.

Finally, it's a pity we don't have a Web site out there somewhere that is constantly reviewing these scope side-by-side and reviewing the newer low-cost optics that are coming onto the market. We need numerical comparisons on acuity and brightness. As far as I can determine, those data are just not available. So, the best we can do is try and find a dealer who has the patience to let us look at a few scopes side by side before we break the bank on one of these expensive pieces of glass.

My opinion, at least ...
 
wizardchef -- thanks for this report, the new Viper scopes have received precious little feedback in this forum.

Manuel is correct that the "max magnification" test is a bit unfair considering the difference between 60x and 45x. Also, the XL zoom eyepiece on the little Pentax 65mm isn't as well regarded as the fixed wide angle eyepiecs.

However having owned the Pentax 65ED I can definitely agree that it isn't really well corrected enough to handle high magnifications. In my experience anything above 40x really starts to break down; 30x or so is really the sweet spot for that scope. Many "budget" scopes look fine at lower mags but will break down at the limits, so it is good to hear that the Viper 65HD can handle its max 45x magnification without any issues.

Thanks again!
 
wizardchef -- thanks for this report, the new Viper scopes have received precious little feedback in this forum.

Manuel is correct that the "max magnification" test is a bit unfair considering the difference between 60x and 45x. Also, the XL zoom eyepiece on the little Pentax 65mm isn't as well regarded as the fixed wide angle eyepiecs.

However having owned the Pentax 65ED I can definitely agree that it isn't really well corrected enough to handle high magnifications. In my experience anything above 40x really starts to break down; 30x or so is really the sweet spot for that scope. Many "budget" scopes look fine at lower mags but will break down at the limits, so it is good to hear that the Viper 65HD can handle its max 45x magnification without any issues.

Thanks again!
Thanks for your reply. I agree with you.

As added information to others who may be reading this thread, I have taken this scope out twice on birding trips since my first post. I am an engineer and a very picky person when it comes to performance, so when I say the scope performed quite nicely, take that into consideration. I believe the reason the Vortex folks limited the zoom on this scope to 45X was exactly the fact mentioned above that the image is beginning to fall apart at that zoom. I used it a number of times to pull in some waterfowl at a distance, but I would not say that the image was by any means "sharp and crystal clear." I am sure if I had a Leica or Swarovski there for comparison I would have been much less impressed with the Viper. However, with that caveat, we were looking at flocks of waterfowl 3/4 to 1 mile away. At 45X I was able to find field marks at that distance and the color correction was good enough to identify leg and bill color on birds. Later in the day it was tough to say what was shimmer (it was clear and warm around noon) and what was scope optics issues.

I believe about 30X would also be the sweet spot for the Viper HD 65mm, although I have not done that exact test. The image in the range if 15-35 or so with the zoom eyepiece is clear, crisp, sharp, and very bright. I only cranked the zoom all the way up when I needed to. I was able, for example, to separate an eared grebe from a horned grebe in winter plumage at about 3/4 mile. The white/gray on the cheek of these two birds is somewhat subtle and requires a reasonable image to pull them apart. It was far out of the range of my 7X45 Zeiss binoculars, which have exceptional optics. So, I am happy with the scope, and again, it is a price-performance tradeoff. If you feel you must have excellent 40-60X power especially at low light conditions, save your pennies and go for a larger objective lens and more expensive optics.

ps I like the eye relief. I do not wear glasses and I like the twist-out eye relief. I had others on the trip who wore glasses and I didn't hear complaints. I also appreciate the vernier on the focus (dual knobs with a fine focus knob). I used that constantly. I am not so high on the stocking-style case they sent with the scope. I may wind up taking that off. It kept binding the focus knob on the trip, a minor irritation. Being able to rotate the scope so that the angled eye piece was sideways was a great help in allowing others who were shorter than I to be able to look through the scope without having to drop the tripod center piece and find the bird all over again. When zooming, the image does go slightly out of focus, requiring refocusing. This was not a big problem but it would be nice if the focus tracked during zooming.
 
It is probably a very similar scope..I owned three pentax 65PF..one,an agled unit,was my main scope for a good while,.maybe a couple of years..and I used it extensively..sold the pentax XF zoom,and got a 15-45X zoom(first Swarovski old astronomy zoom,then Vixen LV,,,very similar performance)...at 45x the image was usable,absolutely..but You could tell that the image was in its way out!..star test proved that the three units had some aberrations..they showed A LOT of false color in the Star test,That surprisingly DIDNT traslate in obvious CA in the image ,at least under or at 30X..a bit of coma and astigmatism was also present...but in the mid range ,20-30X the image was fine..
I have owned the Nikon 60 EDIII and YES, it is a much better scope,..It can be found at times used, at very reasonable prices,but even at retail price will be worth the expense,for It brings performance to another level...even my ED50 creates better image than the Pentax,although the Pentax would be in advantage in brightness,and that will equilibrate the comparison..
Price for the Pentax 65 is Under 500$ in many places,..dont ask me to point where becasue I dont know right now,but I have seen it many times ..just do EBAY..I am sure..
The use of astro eyepieces was the big appeal of the Pentax lineage,and a totally new approach to spotters market at their time of release..still a good point in their list of attributes
I am glad the Vortex is a satisfying scope.Would not have expected the opposite...definitely worth trying to anyone looking for a mid priced scope...Vortex offers good warranty too,..
One thing...Is the scope Japanese?..
I like the picatinny cantilever( or what-ever-is-called) rail on the Vortex..I Would not use a scope without a red dot finder these days,and to my knowledge the vortex is the only one with such a feature...
 
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In retrospect, I wish I had just looked at the Fieldscope side-by-side with the Viper 65mm. But, I did not. I feel sure the Nikon would be the superior scope.

Two small negatives I have experienced with the Viper after taking it out in the field a couple of times. One is the neoprene sock they provide with the scope. It is a royal pain in the tush to get on and off (I had to use pliers!), it impedes the focus knob if you're not very careful, and it grabs the retractable sun shade and makes it difficult to pull out. I will likely take it off some time in the future. It also makes it virtually impossible to remove and install eyepieces, if one happens to be swapping out the zoom eyepiece for the fixed. I found it almost impossible to do.

The second thing is the rubber "gripper" zoom ring on my scope. It appears to have gotten loose from the zooming control and no longer stops at the end of the zoom travel unless I squeeze it slightly to make it grip the zoom ring more tightly. Vortex wants me to send it back for repair, but I'll probably live with it awhile. If you don't squeeze it you don't feel the stop at the end of zoom rotation. Not a huge deal, but disappointing that a brand new scope develops an issue so quickly.

Here is my guess on this line of optics. It is marketed and maintained here in the U.S. in Wisconsin (Vortex Optics). The dealers tell you it is a Japanese scope. Stamped on the tripod mount is the phrase "Made in PRC." My hunch is the optics are all manufactured in China. The scope itself is either manufactured there as well, or perhaps assembled in Japan. The international dealer is located in Japan. The line is marketed in the U.S. by Vortex Optics in Wisconsin. So, my hunch is the scope is a Chinese scope for all intents in purposes with a couple of middle men between the manufacturer and the customer. I am old enough to remember when Japanese products were all junk after WWII. Then, the Japanese became these remarkable reverse engineering folks, and started producing some of the best optics and best cars on the planet. I think the Chinese are moving from producing all junk (which it mostly is now) to a status where they will produce quality products at a cheaper price (for awhile) that will rival comparable international products. Is the Vortex line one example??? Time will tell. In the meantime, I still like this scope a lot!

Oh,and yes, Vortex makes a fixed eyepiece at 25X on the Viper 65mm for about $100 at the discounted price. I am happy with the zoom lens and do not plan to add the 25X fixed lens, although I know some folks prefer that option.
 
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thanks again. The neoprene cover interfering with the focus knob is one of the most common complaints I found when reading user reviews of these scopes on websites, so sounds like you are not alone ;)
 
One last comment for now. I fixed the slipping focus grip with a dab of silicone adhesive underneath the ring. I'm really surprised that Vortex doesn't have a soft rubber gripping surface on the underside of the ring, but they don't. The slippage is not a big problem, but I like for the gripping ring to stop rotating at the limits of the focus so I'll know where I am on the focus. So, other Vortex readers, if you have this problem, just gently pry up the gripping ring and apply some type of adhesive that adheres to metal and rubber underneath. Problem solved.
 
Last night was able to resolve all 4 of Jupiter's largest moons, much to my surprise, at full zoom. Jupiter was there without apparent spherical aberrations, but I couldn't make out details of the surface. The planets were tiny points of light that spoke well for the optics quality.
 
Viper HDA 65mm Scope / Celestron Regal F ED 16x45 65mm

I very recently had the opportunity to compare the Vortex Viper HDa 65mm zoom scope with the Pentax PF 65 EDII zoom scope. Both were angled scopes. At high zoom there was no comparison. The Viper blew the doors off of the Pentax. The sharpness was much more apparent on the Viper and the light at maximum zoom was considerably brighter with the Viper. I was very impressed at how much sharper the Viper was when looking at details at 400 yards distance. Icing on the cake is the Viper is $200 less than the Pentax.

The side-by-side test was done on an overcast day.

Wizarardchef:Thank You so much for your review of the Vortex Viper 65mm scope. You are correct, there seems to be very little written by folks concerning this scope or even the "big brother" the 80 mm. I am now considering a little bit of an upgrade myself to an ED scope - for digiscoping. I belong to the same economic group that has to watch their pennies. Therefore I was taken with the price point of the Vortex line as well as their warranty. I should say also that at this time I have not been able to view through this scope, (probably around the Xmas period at Cabela's in the US). I was wondering if you have had a chance to take a few pictures from your scope, if so, what are your impressions? Also, have you had a chance to compare to the unbelievably priced Celestron Regal ED 65 scope. This comes in @ $369.00 (B&H). I know that the Celestron has received pretty good reviews from members here on the Forum. I am by no means an optic expert ` rather just looking for the very best bang for the buck at this price area. Hope you keep enjoying your scope and again, thank you for your feedback. ;)
 
Wizarardchef:Thank You so much for your review of the Vortex Viper 65mm scope. You are correct, there seems to be very little written by folks concerning this scope or even the "big brother" the 80 mm. I am now considering a little bit of an upgrade myself to an ED scope - for digiscoping. I belong to the same economic group that has to watch their pennies. Therefore I was taken with the price point of the Vortex line as well as their warranty. I should say also that at this time I have not been able to view through this scope, (probably around the Xmas period at Cabela's in the US). I was wondering if you have had a chance to take a few pictures from your scope, if so, what are your impressions? Also, have you had a chance to compare to the unbelievably priced Celestron Regal ED 65 scope. This comes in @ $369.00 (B&H). I know that the Celestron has received pretty good reviews from members here on the Forum. I am by no means an optic expert ` rather just looking for the very best bang for the buck at this price area. Hope you keep enjoying your scope and again, thank you for your feedback. ;)

Unfortunately, I have not tried to set this scope up for digiscoping. I am thinking of doing so in the future, but the camera attachment for it sold by Vortex is pretty expensive. I did take a picture of some pintail ducks yesterday using my iPhone and it turned out fine, but that picture will not tell you anything about how the scope will perform with the correct attachment and a good camera for digiscoping.

No, I have not looked at the Celestron, and I did see the very attractive price tag. As you know, Celestron has been making astronomy optics for a long time. I would suggest that you go to a store that handles both and try them side by side. The bigger objective of the Celestron is going to give you better light, but I don't think the Celestron has HD or ED glass. That may make a difference in chromatic aberrations or color fringing, so I would look carefully at that. I would also compare the two on a detailed target at full zoom. That is where "the rubber meets the road" in a scope.

I can tell you I have had this scope out in the field several times, and I am more and more impressed with it. I think the Vortex people did the right thing by limiting the zoom to 45X. You can tell things are beginning to degrade at that zoom. There is not much difference between 45X and 60X, and I'd rather have a sharp image at 45X than a bigger, less sharp image at 60X.

Please post what you find in that comparison between the two scopes. I wish somebody would make a comparison of the middle priced scopes! There are several out there now, and for my money they are very much worth considering unless one has an unlimited budget.
 
You bet I will. Little limited here in BC. So I will be in Washington State over Xmas - maybe a run to Cabela's although they do not stock Celestron. Headed in your direction (Houston + ) late December early Jan/ Hope to see some cool birds when there. Do you know of an optics store either Galveston or San Antonio that would carry these?
Cheers. D1
 
You bet I will. Little limited here in BC. So I will be in Washington State over Xmas - maybe a run to Cabela's although they do not stock Celestron. Headed in your direction (Houston + ) late December early Jan/ Hope to see some cool birds when there. Do you know of an optics store either Galveston or San Antonio that would carry these?
Cheers. D1

Unfortunately, I don't know specific stores in those cities. You might check the Cabelas and Bass Pro Shops on line in those cities before your trip, or maybe even a phone call would be worthwhile. I would also check the Audubon groups in those cities and email someone there who might have more local information.
 
Actually the Celestron does utilize ED glass in the objective design. I, too, would be curious how the Celestron stacks up with the Viper. Reasonably priced ED scopes are still not as common as I am sure most folks would like them to be.
 
I have one of these coming my way! I wanted a back up for my swaro and for company!!! I hope it fits its intended purpose and will post my thoughts on it once it arrives. I went with the HD simply because I got it for $50 more than the standard version. They both are advertised as using ed elements but, from my past dealings with the viper binocular line I question that somewhat!!! Anyway I'm looking for a bright, sharp view free of ca! We shall see??? Bryce...
 
Can't wait to hear your review! These scopes are woefully underreviewed in this forum. I assume you got teh 65mm Viper HD? Is your Swaro scope also the 65mm? The Viper specs look like its a few inches longer and a bit heavier, so would love to see some side by side photos.

Not sure why you question the glass. The distinction looks just like the binoculars. The non HD models are listed as having the "XD" low dispersion glass, whereas the HD versions have a higher density ED glass that is superior and heavier. Just as with the bins, the HD versions of the scopes are a wee bit heavier. Not all "ED" glass is equal, and I think it's safe to assume that the HD versions just use a better quality ED element. Having used both the regular and HD versions of Viper binoculars, I know for sure that the HD versions do have greatly reduced CA.
 
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Hello,
Among the Vortex Viper HD 65 and its big brother the HD 80 there is not much difference in price (200 euro), but the quality would be the same?
It would be worth going for the HD 80?
Moreover, I see that there is a Helios Fieldmaster ED60 DS 15-45X (also there Fieldmaster ED80 DS) for a price well below the Vortex Viper .., someone has been able to compare these two models?
A very friendly greeting and for their views.
Wachi.
 
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